cordycord

Here's something to add to your radar--found it on geopolitical review:

Continuing a trend of arming enemies of the United States and her allies, Russia is set to supply Venezuela with a large quantity of AK-47 rifles, in addition to "attack helicopters" and MIG fighter jets. The U.S. believes the arms are not for domestic use, but to generate a new Leftist revolution in the region:

The Bush administration has lodged a formal protest with Russia for agreeing to provide the government of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez more than 100,000 AK-47 rifles that U.S. officials believe could be used to aid left-wing uprisings in Latin America.
The administration in December sent a secret letter of protest (formally called a demarche) to the Russian Embassy in Washington, according to senior U.S. officials. The officials say the warning was followed up by concerns expressed directly to the Russian defense and foreign ministers.

The protests come at a time when U.S. intelligence reports say that Mr. Chavez is working behind the scenes to prop up left-wing revolutionary movements in the region while retrenching from democratic principles at home.

U.S. officials said intelligence reports show that Mr. Chavez's government secretly funneled money to Nicaragua last year to aid mayoral candidates of the Marxist Sandinistas, led by former President Daniel Ortega.

At home, Mr. Chavez is planning to start forming militias outside the professional armed forces, U.S. officials say.

The sources say they fear the Russian-provided AK-47s will be used to arm what may become little more than street gangs assigned the task of enforcing loyalty to Mr. Chavez.

"He's consolidating a dictatorship," said a senior U.S. official. "It's a Cuban-style dictatorship. He's arming loyalists and setting them lose to intimidate people at the city block level."

The arms deal with Russia does not call only for AK-47s. Russia will also supply MiG-29 fighters and attack helicopters. Additionally, U.S. intelligence believes the AK-47 buy may eventually reach 300,000 rifles.


And the moral of the story:

Beyond diplomacy, however, there are not many options for Washington...[Venezuela's] huge oil reserves make it the No. 4 provider to the United States.

end story

Thank you President Carter for putting your rubber stamp on the Chavez vote fraud fiasco.

dean

I'm not separating anyone. You're mixing evolution with ecology. Humans have tools (weapons) which gives them an edge over other predators. But send a man naked into the forest to fight a panther, and my money's going to be on the panther. As for being at the top of any pile, we're not. The "lowly" bacteria could take us out at any time; all that is required is one good mutation.
I'm not positive, but I believe that bacteria follow Orthodox Amoebism.

cordycord

So what does it mean if Atheism goes the way of the Dodo bird...?

paS2K

I just heard a radio piece a couple days ago, which recounted the extreme poverty in Nicaragua under the semi-democratic government. The older resident being interviewed told of reasonable stability under the oppressive Sandinista regime....but food and healthcare was provided for all.

Now there is little of either for any but the top rung. Seems that there you can't have it both ways....

cordycord

Come clean PA!

You were listening to NPR, right?

dean

That's highly unlikely considering the present rate of scientific advancement.

gtnag

Dean in keeping with the lets get along controversial theme.

I beg to differ. (Hey I have an undergraduate bs in Zoology)
In regards to the man predator issue.
Put a person in a cage with a panther and the panther would win most of the time. But if I recall correctly panthers and many of the large cat family kill by suffocatiing the prey clamping down on the larynx or by biting into the cervical spine and paralyzing the prey. I might put my money on a few of the Arnold S sized jocks against a 150 pound cat. (I am sure I would lose a lot of money but might win occassionaly). Put a person in the jungle though and they get to use their brain and hands to make tools. Separting mans ability to think and make tools from the equation reminds me of the old saying- "If the queen had testicles she would be the King". Another thing is in reality I doubt that a mountain lion or panther or cat would come after a full sized adult in the wild unless otherwise provoked. Now a full sized grizzly or polar bear might be a different story. Even then I would not expect a bear to come after a person unless given a reason.


As for the bacteria. Dean you are not giving your temple (aka body) enough credit. The amazing things that we take for granted every day deserve a close look see. As you know we are ''infested' with bacteria and are exposed to bacteria every moment of our lives. Did I also mention fungus and viruses. It is in fact an extremely small percentage of the time that a bacteria is able to overcome our immune systems. Many of the infections caused by bacteria are of our own doing to our immune systems. Viruses are another story but again our bodies do an amazing job fightin off most viruses. (With many horrible exceptions unfortunately). So though the cockroaches outnumber us and the bacteria may well inherit the earth I would propose that it is not because they are at the top of the chain or are better predators, but rather that they themselves can survive in many different situations not just predatory.

Please let me set this straight. My comments about the animals are opinion. My comments about the bacteria are 'facts'. My degree in zoology qualifies me to talk about animals about as much as Kevorkian's pathology training qualifies him to talk about living people. ( Now there used to be a controversial topic.) And I truly and humbly defer to your knowledge and experience in the world of zoology.

dean

What, no Ph.D.?

There's no real controversy here unless we start picking nits. My point was that more often than not a single human unarmed will lose when pitted against another vertebrate apex predator of adequate size. This is particularly true when any type of technology is removed from the equation.

As for the bacteria, no self respecting pathogenic bacteria would reside in my body, so my auto immune system (kairomone induced predator defense) gets very little exercise. It is true that the vast majority of bacteria are benign, but there are some spectacularly pernicious strains that can easily overcome the human immune system - staphylococcus and gonococcus to name the two that come quickly to mind. Even our symbiont, which we couldn't live without, E. coli , can quickly overcome the immune system when introduced into the body in places where it isn't normally found.
There are numerous others, and that many of them are becoming increasingly resistant to the effects of the immune system and antibiotics is a well established fact. All that would be required for the development of a super strain is a few mutations. This culture's preoccupation with the indiscriminate use of antibiotics and antibacterials probably isn't helping matters any. Aside from bacteria, there are also a number of species of protozoa that can readily overcome the immune system, for example, the apicomplexans. They invade the red blood cells, and they're nearly impossible to effectively treat without killing the RBCs in which they reside. Our immune system's abilities are absolutely amazing, but not impervious or perfect.

I submit that viruses are out of context within this discussion, as they do not meet the criteria for life.

paS2K

paS2K

You guys must 'dumb down' the discussion if you want free-wheeling controversy...this is way too esoteric for the common Vintage member

Hey, we're geeks, architects, CPAs, elec't contractor s/o's, lawyers, etc. What do we know about Darwin etc (although I have been to the Galapagos )


[quote name='dean' date='Feb 13 2005, 10:09 AM'] What, no Ph.D.?