I don't recall ever taking my S2000 to the dealer either. But the car I bought would be 16 now. They have so much electronic crap on new cars I can't imagine getting away with it for 16 years anymore.

The wife just had the required 100k mileage timing belt changed on her Sabaru, so the shop did the water pump, drive belts, thermostat, and T-belt idlers and rollers as well. All just preventive maintenance before turning it over to our son. I had a local shop I trust do it but likely the rate was the same as the dealer and we didn't have to drive 30 miles. I know I wasn't about to do it. My point is these cars are complex, especially if you keep them for any period of time. The same shop earlier this summer replaced the plugs, air cleaner, rear sway bar links, brake fluid, and pads. Again just preventive maintenance. And I don't consider her car complex.

I just replaced the headlights on my F-150 this weekend. A job I can do. But if the problem centered around the rearview camera, forward-collision warning, automatic emergency braking, blind-spot warning, adaptive cruise control, automatic high-beams, lane-departure warning, and lane-keep assist, it would take a whiz kid to fix it, and I don't qualify. This new technology is beyond most if not all of us. Looking up the 'current' reliability records for the newest Honda or Acura you might be surprised to learn they are no longer bullet-proof.

 

Dave, people have been talking about not being able to work on their cars since computerized fuel injection became common. I always disagreed and felt that it was mostly just a matter of getting new information to add to one's mechanical understanding of how cars work. But now, I think we are really getting there. Your point about the many common new systems that require highly trained technicians for service really brings that point home. I have also been disappointed by the decline in reliability of Honda and Acura models in recent years...just when they finally seem to be headed in the right direction in their engineering and styling. Seems like Toyota is the new gold standard for reliability...for now.

 

I have to disagree with this. I don't think it would take anything special to fix any of the electronics that you mention. It's just something different. Fixing a car is no longer going to your toolbox and pulling out a timing light. Instead, it's going to your toolbox to pull out your OBD2 scanner. There's nothing actually hard about fixing a new car - it's just intimidating to those who've not the experience. But, I assume that the same could have been said for cars in the 50's, 60's, 70's - that it's only intimidating to fix if you haven't the experience.

The preventative maintenance mentioned that was done on the Subaru...there is no difference between that and a car from the 80's or 90's with a timing belt. The same work has to be done...in fact, with a longer interval!

In terms of the Accord dropping the V6...well, I agree that it is a shame. The Honda V6 is probably one of the smoothest, most compact, power-dense V6s on the market. And, it sounds fabulous! But, we also don't need V6s to make 300 horsepower anymore. Turbo 4 cylinders do that with greater efficiency. And, the best part: they weigh a lot less, so fuel economy will further increase, and the car will no longer feel nose heavy! Toyota has their own worries about the Camry...they shouldn't spend their time worrying about Honda.

 

Nothing hard? That's one way to look at it. But, certainly complex. Here's an example, my 06 Audi A6 had twelve different fuse box "locations". I can not even begin to tell you how many fuses there was in total. I watched a master mechanic using his portable laptop trying to trace down an issue I was having. Having the right equipment and knowledge has always been key.

Location No.
Description
1
Fuses in E-Box plenum chamber, right
2
Fuses on Fuse Holder, Front Passenger's Side
3
Fuses on steering cross member (not used)
4
Fuses on Vehicle Electrical System Control Module -J519
5
Fuses (SF) on Fuse Holder F
6
Fuses in luggage compartment, right
7
Fuses in luggage compartment right, on Battery
8
Fuses on Fuse Holder, Driver's Side
9
Fuses behind Storage Compartment Driver's Side
10
Fuses (SA) on Fuse Holder A
11
Fuse in E-Box plenum chamber, left
12
Fuses on Connector Station on A-pillar, right lower
13
Fuses on Main Fuse Holder E-Box plenum chamber, right

 

Again, the hang-up here seems to lie in a fascination with a new inclusion of electronics and their control circuits/methods. I'm not so sure that noting the tech used a computer to trace an issue is much different than back in the "(g)olden" days where you'd listen to each cylinder through a screw driver to hear which one was knocking. Or, when you smelled the exhaust to tell you if your carburetor was set too rich. Or, when you cranked and cranked, only to find that the distributor cap was broken. In fact, having a computer tell you what is bad, what circuit is at fault, seems be quicker! And it can tell you more of the health of the engine: knock count, temperatures, AFR, vacuum/boost.

The argument seems to be nowadays "cars are disposable, they're not meant to be fixed." Actually, cars are not supposed to break these days. That's why we have all the computers in them now: detect knock and adjust for fuel. Detect oxygen levels and adjust fueling. Detect boost pressure and control the wastegate. Detect oil temperature and reduce engine load/boost. It's a shame for us enthusiasts, because we like to know...we like to feel what the car is doing. The large majority of people don't. These days, it's a problem if a car can't hit 150,000 miles without an issue.

 

Your point is well taken. No argument about people's expectations on reliability and longevity, plus the fear of the unknown when it comes to all computerized goings on.

Like most of my car buddy's I do not have a OBD2 scanner; heck, I don't even have a laptop. At my age I do not have any interest in trying to be current with how to work on modern cars. The wife always has the most modern car in our fleet and I learned many years ago it was better to take her's to a shop. Every now and then, like just recently, I try to give her some advice, like there's still 30% left on your rear brakes. Will she take my word for it - no. I just get push back, so what's the shop tell her, your brakes are fine and you've got 30% left on your rears!

However, I still remember taking the S2000 to dealer for the single purpose of getting a OBD2 scanner code, as I did all my own work on the S2000. The tech did not know where to plug it in. I had to show him. I left shaking my head but I did get the code I wanted and, it told me where the bad electrical connection was. It happened when I had a roll bar installed and was an easy fix. Which was your point.