Hero that has fallen from grace
06-23-2005, 08:14 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Hero that has fallen from grace
As an aviation buff, one of my hero's has been Randy Cunningham now know as Congressman Duke Cunningham.
As far as "aviation dog fights" go the historical average is that they last about two minutes. During the Viet Nam "conflict" Randy Cunningham was an F-4 pilot and he was engaged in the "longest dog fight in aviation history" with LTC Toon a North Viet Namese pilot flying a Mig. The dog fight lasted twenty-eight minutes.
He went on to be a Top Gun instructor, and then a Congressman.
He sold his $700,000 home to a defense contractor for $1.4 million dollars. The company that bought it then put it back on the market within weeks for it's true market value of $700,000. IMO that is a thinly vailed bribe, as he sits on the appropriation commitee that doled out defense contracts.
In my opinion, I am very disappointed that one of my hero's has fallen from grace, assuming these allegations are true.
As far as "aviation dog fights" go the historical average is that they last about two minutes. During the Viet Nam "conflict" Randy Cunningham was an F-4 pilot and he was engaged in the "longest dog fight in aviation history" with LTC Toon a North Viet Namese pilot flying a Mig. The dog fight lasted twenty-eight minutes.
He went on to be a Top Gun instructor, and then a Congressman.
He sold his $700,000 home to a defense contractor for $1.4 million dollars. The company that bought it then put it back on the market within weeks for it's true market value of $700,000. IMO that is a thinly vailed bribe, as he sits on the appropriation commitee that doled out defense contracts.
In my opinion, I am very disappointed that one of my hero's has fallen from grace, assuming these allegations are true.
06-23-2005, 08:29 PM
#2
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Hey Matt....
Power corrupts, etc. etc. etc.
Politicians deal in favors for favors every day. Sometimes the line gets blurred in their minds after the DC Atrophy sets in.
It is sad when some of our heroes turn out to have feet of clay.
Power corrupts, etc. etc. etc.
Politicians deal in favors for favors every day. Sometimes the line gets blurred in their minds after the DC Atrophy sets in.
It is sad when some of our heroes turn out to have feet of clay.
06-24-2005, 05:39 PM
#3
Registered User
Matt,
Did you ever see the PBS special, "Top Gun and Beyond"? It was truly fascinating, especially the part where the retired Viet Nam era pilot talked about turning off various radios, etc. so he could concentrate when things were likely to get ugly. I wish I could find that VHS tape...
While I condemn such actions by polticians, I've never been surrounded all day by people who constantly tell me how great I am, how I deserve this or that perk, etc. Since we all want to believe that, it must be very difficult to move in the circles of power and not succumb to the bribes and flattery.
While I'm not a religious man, I do have immense respect for Billy Graham for that very reason. He's been in the circles of power for decades and I've never heard one whisper of impropriety.
Did you ever see the PBS special, "Top Gun and Beyond"? It was truly fascinating, especially the part where the retired Viet Nam era pilot talked about turning off various radios, etc. so he could concentrate when things were likely to get ugly. I wish I could find that VHS tape...
While I condemn such actions by polticians, I've never been surrounded all day by people who constantly tell me how great I am, how I deserve this or that perk, etc. Since we all want to believe that, it must be very difficult to move in the circles of power and not succumb to the bribes and flattery.
While I'm not a religious man, I do have immense respect for Billy Graham for that very reason. He's been in the circles of power for decades and I've never heard one whisper of impropriety.
06-24-2005, 06:03 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by MyBad,Jun 24 2005, 09:47 PM
No offence, but if he was so hot, why did it take 28 minutes to get the better of an inferiorly trained and equipped adversary?
Me thinks something smells funny from the get-go.
Me thinks something smells funny from the get-go.
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06-27-2005, 08:09 AM
#9
Registered User
Originally Posted by matt_inva,Jun 25 2005, 02:03 AM
LTC Toon was North Vietnam's ACE pilot. I suppose that my best response would be that some people regardless of training have natural ability. I will remind you that this dog fight was one of the reasons that "Top Gun" was created. In an interview that I saw on the "old Aviation cable channel" with Randy "Duke" Cunningham. After passing "head to head" Cunningham "went vertical" to come over the top and much to his surprise LTC Toon also went vertical so they were now canopy to canopy as the dog fight ensued.
Also - I'm not sure the Col Toon incident was 28mins - I think it was the overall engagement in which he downed the other 4 migs, I believe he encountered Col Toon on egress. Remember, there was that long multiplane furball that he was first engaged in with the NVA pilots flying the wagon wheel (I think that's what they called it).
A 28 minute encounter after that, with an F4 in and out of reheat - doesn't seem possible.
Col. Cunningham had been to the beginnings of Top Gun before this engagement, but this incident was subsequently used as training.
Cunninghams description of this engagement is still one of the coolest deals "there he was looking back at me with his little gomer goggles".
To put a cap on it all - Duke and his RIO (Driscoll?) were either shot down by a SAM or ran out of fuel (i fergit) and ejected feet wet in that mission on the way back to the carrier!
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