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In his thread about his new Si, Rob (ralper) posted, " Had British Leyland not screwed things up, those old sports cars probably would have evolved into Mazda Miatas and Honda S2000s. But thats for another thread."
Job done.
While I agree that had British Leyland management and labor unions not combined to drive the company into the ground back in the 60's, there is a tiny posibility we might still have MGs and Triumphs. That said, there are still some issues that could keep MG/Triumph from producing cars like the Miata and S2000.. First off there is the ownership history of other formerly British owned manufacturers. Aston Martin and Jaguar, passed through Ford's hands, with Jaguar later being sold to Tata and Aston Martin now in the hands of various international investment firms. Meanwhile most of BL eventually became Ashok Leyland of India, which is mostly in the business of making trucks and buses. The last "MG" sports car, the TF was produced in 2005 as the MG-Rover group closed its doors after a decade of financial struggles. Even the Rolls Royce brand now belongs to BMW while Bentley is a subsidiary of Volkswagen, AG
What irony that India now controls two former British motoring giants. Atlee and Mountbatten must be rolling over in their respective graves.
But lets say MG and Triumph both survived under British ownership somehow. Fast forward to the new millennium. British auto manufacturing facilities have never been noted for product quality. And while some of the foreign owned plants in Britain are turning out higher quality products than in the past, like post-malaise Detroit, they still have a long way to go to catch up with Honda and Mazda when it comes to producing highly reliable mass market sports cars with great engineering and build quality..
Of course I could be (and often am) wrong. So what do you think?
The spirit of MG lives on in my S2000, but that and the remaining collector cars is probably all that's left of MG. I highly doubt that MG, Triumph or any of the other British marques that specialized in cars of the type could have survived on their own. I suppose the combination of the shrinking market, pollution and safety regulations and the increasing awareness of quality control spelled the end of those cars and the companies that produced them.
Mike, here's a photo of a key fob I have and there's a story to go with it.
It is a Ming Jue key fob. This is certain to become a collector’s item – I least I think so. Ming Jue is the re-branded MG Rover brand. The former MG Rover operation was moved from the Longbridge plant in Birmingham, UK to the new site for production in Nanjing, China. In 2005, the 6,000 plus staff at the MG Rover plant in Longbridge were informed of its temporary closure when they went into bankruptcy. But most never came back. What started as an attempt to explore the relationships at the factory, the workers and the town, became a poignant study of absence and change. The production of MG Rover was all transferred to Nanjing, China when NAC bought the carmaker. A second Chinese company, SAIC, bought that company in 2007 and operated a small UK subsidiary known as MG Motor. As a result of the ownership changes MG’s “Morris Garages” has become MG Ming Jue, which translates to 'Modern Gentlemen'. And that Gentleman makes it collectible to me.
Every now and again, someone traveling abroad, like South America, will send me a picture of an MG dealership - - Honestly, I lost all interest in tracking its future, I just live in the past.
As for what might have been? They were British. If it worked ok for 100 years, why would you change. Well, at least BL, etc. was that way. On the other side of the fence was Lotus, who changed so much and was so far out there it was hard to keep up. I always thought of the S2000 being a modern day Lotus.
Interesting examples exist, Mike. Morgan soldiers on as they ever did with very limited production. TVR was on again-off again for years after Layland collapsed, but finally called it quits, then Smolensky bought it and then he sold it to Edgar and now a new line of cars are supposed to be introduced in a month:
Gordon Murray and Cosworth are supposedly involved in the design of the sports car. Will it really happen? Who knows.
Meanwhile, Lotus lives on and still offers a variety of cars.
Some of the old names were bought by others as some of you discussed above. In fact, the story goes that BMW was going to relaunch Austin-Healey (as they did Mini) but ran into a problem with the ownership of the name. The story goes that when they bought Rover, they thought they had acquired the Austin-Healey name, but in fact only got Austin and the Healey family only ever allowed their name to be used under a license agreement that had lapsed in the early 1970s.
So yes Mike, they could have survived. Who knows as what??
Well, that was sort of my point, guys. You can still buy Craftsman tools at Sears...or Ace Hardware...or *shudder* K-Mart. But are they the same Craftsman? Will they be when Sears finally closes all its doors for good?
To me, survival is exemplified by the story of Harley Davidson, following the AMF ownership disaster. Under employee ownership the company turned itself around in terms of manufacturing efficiency, marketing and, most importantly, quality, and became again an American icon, building products much desired around the world. (Not for me, mind you, given the prices. But still...)
No sure today's drivers are used to the bare essentials of these earlier sports cars. Plus, so few know how to drive sticks. And an MG with paddles? That would be weird, to put it mildly.
But, I guess there is a niche market. As the Mini Cooper reissue proved.
... I don't think they could have survived. Forget all of the management, union and poor build issues. The ones we loved in the States were mostly rag tops. Somewhere in the 1970s or 1980s any convertible was deemed a safety hazard - too many people getting killed in roll overs. No one would buy them! Even American convertibles like the Mustang, Camero and Firebird were discontinued for many, many years.
You have to give Mazda credit for coming out with the Miata. But to be honest, it's a twin of the 1960's Lotus Elan. As far as I'm concerned, the Miata and the S2000 are the modern British roadsters.
08-13-2017 | 12:07 PM
Had They Survived, Would Triumph & MG Prospered?
