this is the problem, as Rob pointed out. I listen to the Alan Greenspan tell me there is no inflation (they minus food, energy out of it) and I scratch my head. Yeah sure if I want to buy a TV or DVD player they are cheap but to feed my family, heat my home, pay the taxes on my home, insure their health etc the costs have skyrocketed over the last several years. The plunging dollar also is hurting us. But hey it's good for tourism The only hedge against this trend is that our home has doubled in value (not really see shrinking dollar) and my gold investments have woke up. If you did not own a home in the last few years you are shit out of luck because more than likely you just fell into the lower class category, sad but true.

 

I'v been retired now for a little over 2 years. What has happened for me and others is with the cost of health care and the other necessities, we must come out of retirement and get another job to support the higher costs.
I would consider myself as middle (middle class) with enough money to enjoy life at this stage, but really don't know if and when I can retire completely. Isn't that the working man's goal?
The city I live and work in is similar to Camden NJ, a steel town that fell apart when the steel industry went down!

 

Jim and I have been noticing for several years that the gap between the rich and poor appears to be ever widening -- more folks who would have formerly been considered lower middle class are joining the ranks of the impoverished and fewer people are in the solid middle class area. I totally agree that the cost of health care and food is a tremendous burden for the middle class.

 

I think it works like this. The "middle class" like most other class inventions comes from a longtime constant harang from the left.

Some people do well in life others don't. If you'd like to blame someone for the inability to compete, blame our educational system, our political system etc.

You know my ancestors came here looking for work because there was no work to be had in Europe. I moved to Florida because that's where the demographics were best (and still are) for a constanly growing economy.

Today's workforce has been conditioned to think.."If I sit here the gov't will provide" Gov'ts dont' provide anything other than a reshuffling of wealth taken away in taxes from our productive private sector.

Everybody thinks a job should be laid at their door. Hey that's not how the real world works. If you don't have the education, chances are you won't get a job with a good future. It starts there... If you do have a good education and a productive work history and don't have the willingness to move where the jobs are, you have a problem.

Bottom line is the divergence in income is not a class thing, it's an everybody thing. Economies are cyclic. A lot of what has occurred in the "Rust belt" is because they became uncompetitive, didn't or weren't allowed to upgrade mfg facilities for union or environmental reasons and so on and so on. The biggest reason there are no new mfg facilities in heavy industry is that the cost of construction and EPA compliance make it either immposible or a bad investment. That's why jobs left.

All I can tell you is I have more employees working for me now than ever before at the highest wage avg I've ever paid. I'm still short people. We have pages of wantads down here looking for qualified people.

Down here I see a growning "middle class". We have a lot of immigrants here, many of them very poor, We also have a whole new bunch of "middle class" people who have done well, coming from those immigrants. We have a lot of people who have moved here from the northen states as well.


fltsfshr


I think Jonas is correct

 

Charlie,
Very well put. The monetary policy by where you devalue our currency, coupled with rising interest rates, and a skyrocketing debt, is a formula for disaster.

We have done everything that we, as a nation, can do to chase away manufacturing. We want everything cheaper becasue that's what is affordable, and the reason that is affordable is because the average wage is lower.

For anyone who wants to blame this on a conspiacy from the left, so be it, but even government statistics show that the standard of living is going down.

The jobs that kept our economy afloat are not in south and east Asia, and they will never come back.

 

I am not sure about heavy manufacturing, but I think that the cost of construction and EPA compliance is only a small part of the reason. The bigger part of the reason, I think, is the differential in wages between American labor and off shore, overseas labor. To compound the problem is the level of investment foreign governments are willing to make to nurture industrial development.

In light industry, typically labor intensive industries like the needletrades, costs of construction and EPA compliance has almost nothing to do with it. Here the difference is almost entirely the wage differential. Unfortunately, these industries, which were among the first to be lost, generally hire huge amounts of unskilled and semi skilled labor. These are the industries that developing nations generally rely upon to help make the move from an agrarian economy to an industrial economy. As unskilled labor becomes skilled labor at a higher wage, many countries move away from these light manufacturing industries into the heavy manufacturing industries where they still have a wage advantage. Look at Japan for an example, or more recently South Korea. Also consider, if you will, how frightened the garment manufacturers in countries like Sri Lanka, where wages are $15 to $85 per month, are of the easing of tariffs for mainland China. The Sri Lankans simply cannot compete in terms of wages with the labor in China.

I challenge you to go into any store you like and find more than a handful of garments (if in fact you can find that many) with the "Made in America" label. That wasn't such a problem 30 years ago.

That things are good in South Florida comes as no surprise. Whereas there is some manufacturing being done there, the economy is largely based on service. Not that there is anything especially wrong with that, but it remains to be seen as to how long this can sustain the prosperity of the area and whether or not this is simply part of a cycle.

You are absolutely correct that in order for people to get good jobs they have to be willing to go to where the jobs are, and they have to be willing to work. No question about it, but, that still doesn't address the issue at hand which is the widening gap between the disposable income available to the middle class and the upper class wage earners. Even people with what we would normally consider good jobs are having a more difficult time making ends meet.

 

Also, let's not forget that there is a certain amount of NIMBYism at play here. There is a reason, for example, why there have not been any new refineries built in the US in the last 30 years or so... And those would be good jobs to have.

 

Fltsfshr has spoken truth:

Education is the key, and every child deserves an equal chance at grabbing the Gold Ring. That's one of my biggest gripes...we are nowhere near having a level playing field on this issue.

Now, OTOH....if all of the unemployed and underemployed in the 'rust belt' and other slow/no-growth states moved to Florida, I seriously doubt that that 'growing economy' could absorb them.

 

More anecdotes:

I do 95% of my manufacturing offshore. The pricing advantage is not large, but allows me to employ web designers, cad designers, warehouse and sales people, as well as all the ancillary companies that I use (FedEx, etc.). If I had to manufacture here, I'd be out of business. If I had a union making my hiring/firing decisions for me, I'd be out of business.

At present, I firmly believe that I'm employing more Americans at a higher wage than If I manufactured in the States.

 

Cordy

What type of merchandise do you manufacture?