Damn, I thought that's what orientation was all about.

 

I don't question safety, I'm more than ok to see progress there, my brother was killed in a car...
Fuel economy is relative, what one person thinks is horrible, another finds ok
I'm a pickup fan, and I will have one till the day I can no longer drive, yet I despise all things SUV
One of my all time favorite vehicles was my Titan, 5.6 V8, 5,000 pounds of brute force, 300+ hp and 400+ ft-lbs, when I saw 17 mpg it was a really good day, because I have a very heavy right foot, and I NEVER got tired of 400 ft-lbs
So to me, good fuel economy is a number that is much lower than it is to many, so when I see a 40 mpg from a car that would be so much better if it had a 30 mpg rating I just shake my head

American Honda sucks and John Mendel should be fired, that's my 2¢...

And for me, it always comes back to Nissan as an example, it's a COMPLETE car company, they have everything from pure electric for the greenies, to trucks that can tow 10,000 lbs, family sedans, economy cars, affordable sportscar, one of the best supercars, SUV's, Crossovers, they are involved in racing in a big way, and they have never felt the need to worship nothing but MPG, and for sure, they got some stuff that is polar opposite of bland! Different companies, different visions, Honda has lost the vision they used to have that I respected.

 

Of course fuel economy is a relative thing. I would never expect a full size SUV or for that matter your Nissan Titan to get the same miles per gallon as a Prius or a Civic, but I would expect all vehicles to be engineered to get the maximum fuel economy possible at the time. I don't mean economy at the sake of power, I mean better engineering to obtain the best of both worlds. While there will have to be some tradeoffs, I fully expect better engineering to give us the best of all worlds.

My point being that I can't see why we can't have safer, more fuel efficient cars that are fun to drive. I don't believe that fuel economy and safety have to lead to bland, boring vehicles. It only has to if the manufacturer allows it to happen. It especially didn't have to happen to Honda.

 

Well Rob,
I think a big part of the problem lies in the public.
It appears that a huge chunk of the buying public wants toasters. They want bland, Point A to Point B, transportation. An appliance that will simply get them there.
"I hate cars. I hate driving. I hate having to spend money on cars."* They've never pulled more than 2/10's of a G on corner in their life.
In their mind if you feel lateral load, your driving wrong.
If anything is exciting in the car, it reminds them that they wasted money on it.
I mean, is there any other reason that the Toyota Camry exists?

Ironically these will probably be the same people lined up around the block waiting to get theirs, when Google finally brings their self navigating car to the market.



*I work with some of these people. and yes those are real quotes.

 

I absolutely agree with you, and that is exactly why Toyota exists and prospers. There is, however, another segment in the market that wants a bit more from a car. I'm not talking about enthusiasts who buy S2000s and read Motor Trend every month, I'm talking about the segment of everyday people who want a good, reliable, safe, economical car that also feels good to drive. There are plenty of these people around. My wife is one. She couldn't care less about sports cars or motorsports, but she wants a car that she can rely on and that feels good in her hands. That is the audience that Honda used to play to until it fell asleep, became afraid of the recession and allowed American Honda to convince the company to become Toyota.

 

Believe me, we are on the same page here...

Why do you think my next vehicle is going to be a Hyundai Veloster Turbo

 

Interesting, never really thought about it that way, I can see your point though

I don't think I know anybody like that though, seems family, friends, and co-workers.all have gasoline in their veins

 

My +1 will tell you she's not a car person . . . that is until she spends time behind the wheel of a good one. She got to log a lot of miles in my A6 when I was in a hospital in OH and she really learned to love it over her Subaru.

 

Yeah, because MORE POWER! and a poorly set suspension is really exciting! Add in a mouth from a carp and I can see why you're all for it.