2007 is the last year...
05-13-2007, 05:20 PM
#21
Originally Posted by valentine,May 13 2007, 07:42 PM
......but you went out and tried out an S, loved the way it fit and bought it. There's no reason to spend more than you have to in order to drive what feels great, right?
I bought a car and (happily) got a community too 
Side note: While reading about the new M-3 in Automobile mag, I was reminded me of another reason that I like the S so much: simplicity and lack of unneeded gizmos (iDrive, 20 button sound systems, auto hvac, power seats, tilt wheels, etc). The S is amazing for inclusion of what's needed for fun/safe driving....and NOT a whole lot more
05-13-2007, 05:26 PM
#22
Originally Posted by paS2K,May 13 2007, 07:25 PM
Dave, I have great respect for your knowledge of Sports Cars....but here's how I see the comparison:
*Boxster S, msrp $55,500; 5 year cost to own $79,900 (16k/yr)
*S2000, msrp $34,250; 5 year cost to own $62,475 (12.5/yr)
For some, I guess $3.5/yr more is worth it for the 'history/heritage'; more torque; more gizmos; inferior shifter; more snob value. Personally, although I could afford the extra $20k, I like the 'everyman stealth' of the S (top of the Honda marque) vs. the entry level status of the B-S
(almost the bottom of the Porsche marque).
Hmmmm....on a value basis, the B-S costs ~60% more but the 5 yr cost is only ~30% more. Maybe it is a better deal.....if you can stand the Porsche snobs looking down their nose @ you
*Boxster S, msrp $55,500; 5 year cost to own $79,900 (16k/yr)
*S2000, msrp $34,250; 5 year cost to own $62,475 (12.5/yr)
For some, I guess $3.5/yr more is worth it for the 'history/heritage'; more torque; more gizmos; inferior shifter; more snob value. Personally, although I could afford the extra $20k, I like the 'everyman stealth' of the S (top of the Honda marque) vs. the entry level status of the B-S
(almost the bottom of the Porsche marque). Hmmmm....on a value basis, the B-S costs ~60% more but the 5 yr cost is only ~30% more. Maybe it is a better deal.....if you can stand the Porsche snobs looking down their nose @ you
I'm not really sure the auto market and especially the sports car market turns on the logic that you've outlined. Not that there is anything wrong with the logic, but I don't think it much plays a part in the buying decision. Just like you, many of us could buy any car we wanted, and for many of us the S2000 is exactly the car we wanted.
I doubt that I would ever buy a Porsche. I've never liked the Boxster or the Boxster S. For some reason that car just doesn't work for me. I think the 911 has grown too "grand" for what I want. I really do like the Cayman. Yes, I know its really a Boxster with a hard top, but somehow the hard top redefines the car. That however is a limiting factor for me. My sportscar has to be a roadster. If for no other reason than that all my other cars are not. And, I love roadsters.
The real reason I wouldn't buy a Porsche is because it's a Porsche. I don't like what that has come to mean, especially around here in the northeast. Whenever I've tried walking around with my nose in the air, all I've ever gotten from it is a stiff neck. Too many people around here buy the car for the status and prestiege without having a clue about what the car is about. I find many (certainly not all) BMW owners are the same.
I, for one, refuse to take the Honda badges off the car. I prefer to leave them on. I love when people say, "Its only a Honda". The joke is on them. As a matter of fact when they ask I tell them its a Civic in drag.
This summer Adam and I are probably going to buy either an MGA or an MG-TD just to play with and have some fun with. If ever you needed proof that financial logic has nothing to do with the purchase of a sports car, this purchase would be that proof.
05-13-2007, 05:35 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by ralper,May 13 2007, 08:26 PM
Jerry,
I'm not really sure the auto market and especially the sports car market turns on the logic that you've outlined. Not that there is anything wrong with the logic, but I don't think it much plays a part in the buying decision. Just like you, many of us could buy any car we wanted, and for many of us the S2000 is exactly the car we wanted.
I doubt that I would ever buy a Porsche. I've never liked the Boxster or the Boxster S. For some reason that car just doesn't work for me. I think the 911 has grown too "grand" for what I want. I really do like the Cayman. Yes, I know its really a Boxster with a hard top, but somehow the hard top redefines the car. That however is a limiting factor for me. My sportscar has to be a roadster. If for no other reason than that all my other cars are not. And, I love roadsters.
The real reason I wouldn't buy a Porsche is because it's a Porsche. I don't like what that has come to mean, especially around here in the northeast. Whenever I've tried walking around with my nose in the air, all I've ever gotten from it is a stiff neck. Too many people around here buy the car for the status and prestiege without having a clue about what the car is about. I find many (certainly not all) BMW owners are the same.
I, for one, refuse to take the Honda badges off the car. I prefer to leave them on. I love when people say, "Its only a Honda". The joke is on them. As a matter of fact when they ask I tell them its a Civic in drag.
This summer Adam and I are probably going to buy either an MGA or an MG-TD just to play with and have some fun with. If ever you needed proof that financial logic has nothing to do with the purchase of a sports car, this purchase would be that proof.
I'm not really sure the auto market and especially the sports car market turns on the logic that you've outlined. Not that there is anything wrong with the logic, but I don't think it much plays a part in the buying decision. Just like you, many of us could buy any car we wanted, and for many of us the S2000 is exactly the car we wanted.
I doubt that I would ever buy a Porsche. I've never liked the Boxster or the Boxster S. For some reason that car just doesn't work for me. I think the 911 has grown too "grand" for what I want. I really do like the Cayman. Yes, I know its really a Boxster with a hard top, but somehow the hard top redefines the car. That however is a limiting factor for me. My sportscar has to be a roadster. If for no other reason than that all my other cars are not. And, I love roadsters.
The real reason I wouldn't buy a Porsche is because it's a Porsche. I don't like what that has come to mean, especially around here in the northeast. Whenever I've tried walking around with my nose in the air, all I've ever gotten from it is a stiff neck. Too many people around here buy the car for the status and prestiege without having a clue about what the car is about. I find many (certainly not all) BMW owners are the same.
I, for one, refuse to take the Honda badges off the car. I prefer to leave them on. I love when people say, "Its only a Honda". The joke is on them. As a matter of fact when they ask I tell them its a Civic in drag.
This summer Adam and I are probably going to buy either an MGA or an MG-TD just to play with and have some fun with. If ever you needed proof that financial logic has nothing to do with the purchase of a sports car, this purchase would be that proof.
Good post, Rob 
05-14-2007, 03:47 PM
#25
I love it when anit-snobs are as snobby as the snobs. 
I think you folks have known me long enough to know my remarks on how good the current Boxster/Cayman is has nothing to do with snob appeal but rather is based on the merits of the cars.
On the other hand, pick up any well researched sports car book written since the early 60s and it will tell you in volumes why the name Porsche deserves much of the respect the name brings. You can poo-poo that if you want, just as you can make comparisons with a Ferrari, if you wish; we all know on a track like BeaveRun the S2000 had no problems hanging in the curves with a Ferrari.
Debating the merits of sports cars, one over the other is of little interest to me but I can tell you one thing - I never bought a sports car in my life "based on who else owned one" be they nice Vintage folks or gold chain snobs. Neither matters when you are one with the car.
If you want to say the S2000 is a better value than the Boxster, ok. I agree. It has much better build quality and is much less to maintain. So is it a better sports car? You may think so; I don't. Having driven both, if both were priced the same, it would be any easy choice based on the handling and braking of the cars. Since they are not priced the same I can respect your choice as I made the same one six years ago but today it would be different, as I believe the Boxster is that much better. On bang for the buck Jerry you have to also agree that the WRX and Evo are even better still, since either can match or better the S2000 at the track.
I think you folks have known me long enough to know my remarks on how good the current Boxster/Cayman is has nothing to do with snob appeal but rather is based on the merits of the cars.
On the other hand, pick up any well researched sports car book written since the early 60s and it will tell you in volumes why the name Porsche deserves much of the respect the name brings. You can poo-poo that if you want, just as you can make comparisons with a Ferrari, if you wish; we all know on a track like BeaveRun the S2000 had no problems hanging in the curves with a Ferrari.
Debating the merits of sports cars, one over the other is of little interest to me but I can tell you one thing - I never bought a sports car in my life "based on who else owned one" be they nice Vintage folks or gold chain snobs. Neither matters when you are one with the car.
If you want to say the S2000 is a better value than the Boxster, ok. I agree. It has much better build quality and is much less to maintain. So is it a better sports car? You may think so; I don't. Having driven both, if both were priced the same, it would be any easy choice based on the handling and braking of the cars. Since they are not priced the same I can respect your choice as I made the same one six years ago but today it would be different, as I believe the Boxster is that much better. On bang for the buck Jerry you have to also agree that the WRX and Evo are even better still, since either can match or better the S2000 at the track.
05-14-2007, 03:50 PM
#26
Originally Posted by SheDrivesIt,May 14 2007, 04:03 PM
And this wonderful information based upon an April Fools Day Joke article by our own Drewchie! Yep, those car magazine writers and editors are really on the inside at Honda.
IBTL.
You're right.
05-14-2007, 04:12 PM
#27
Originally Posted by dlq04,May 14 2007, 06:47 PM
I love it when anit-snobs are as snobby as the snobs.
You shouldn't have taken this personally. It wasn't about you. And, it wasn't about whether the Porsche is a good sports car or not.
Here in the Northeast we see an awful lot of Porsches on the road. A lot of Boxsters and an awful lot of 911s. In general, the tri-state area and especially Northern New Jersey is fairly wealthy. The vast majority of Porsches are bought by people who have no idea what its about, except the money status and auto status that they get as soon as they sign on the dotted line.
Whether you want to admit it or not, the name Porsche carries a certain cache. Here in the New York tri state area, that is what most (not all, but most) of the people buying a Porsche are buying. Why do you think the Cayenne is so successful? Do you really think that most of the people buying it really want a high performance SUV? Maybe they're just looking for the nameplate.
I have a number of clients, (doctors, dentists, lawyers and etc.) who are making good money but haven't a clue about cars, who have bought Porsches.
That's why I wouldn't buy the car. In spite of the fact that it is a top notch sports car, I don't like the baggage that comes along with it.
05-14-2007, 04:40 PM
#28
Things are a LOT different in Michigan. For example, I recently saw a marketing summary of cars sold in the circulation area of Flint, Michigan's largest newspaper. For that area for the entire year of 2006 customers bought "two" new Porsches - one 911 and one Cayman!
Today in my hometown I saw the first Porsche of the summer - an older white Carrera rag top with older white hair dude driving it. Almost all the Porsches I've ever seen in Michigan have in fact been either at a race track or on a race track. I know many lawyers and doctors and the like buy them as if they were a watch but not in the circles I hang out in. A close doctor friend drives a Riley, a Rover, and an MGA and two of my lawyer friends also drive an MGA; of course, these guys work on their cars too. SUVs, not Porsche, is the vehicle of choice from most around here.
Today in my hometown I saw the first Porsche of the summer - an older white Carrera rag top with older white hair dude driving it. Almost all the Porsches I've ever seen in Michigan have in fact been either at a race track or on a race track. I know many lawyers and doctors and the like buy them as if they were a watch but not in the circles I hang out in.
A close doctor friend drives a Riley, a Rover, and an MGA and two of my lawyer friends also drive an MGA; of course, these guys work on their cars too. SUVs, not Porsche, is the vehicle of choice from most around here.
05-17-2007, 07:22 PM
#29
I will believe it when I see it in the showrooms.
05-18-2007, 04:33 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by dlq04,May 13 2007, 06:07 PM
Bottom line, Honda jumped in, set a goal, met it, and moved on to other things unlike Porsche and others who truly refine their sports cars year and year - some times for the better and sometimes for the worse - but they don't stand still year after year.