03spa

I think you're right. I'm 27.

Yellow Streak

It isn't the idea of spending $500 (or whatever it costs). The idea is:

1. If I run high octane fuel, my chances of detonation (at 7.5 PSI with a charge cooler) are practically zero. The motor is run safely with peak efficiency and power output.

2. There is already a knock sensor on the motor that pulls timing when it hears knock. It may not pull it as aggressively - I don't know the exact stats of the ECU.

3. In order for this device to operate, it has to hear knock. If your motor is knocking on a regular basis enough to have to pull timing, you are already damaging it.

I am not going to get into a pissing contest to prove that race gas fits into my budget. I don't need to waste my money on a band-aid to prove that to you.

-YS

PS Congratulations on endearing yourself to the S2Ki community

9000RED

OK, before everybody bashes this guy, I would like to see if there are any other opinions. Would this not be ideal for a turbo set-up that uses a vafc and fmu, or maybe an e-manage? Used as a back-up after dyno tuning. Does the e-manage have a knock sensor and pull timing? If I remember correctly it doesn't control timing. So unless you go with total engine management (i.e. AEM EMS) a $300 investment for piece of mind isn't too bad. You spend more than that on fancy boost guages. Sure you could put that money towards an AEM, but there are so many costs and headaches:

$1500 for AEM EMS
$500 for wideband O2 sensor
$1000 laptop
$$$ tons of dyno tuning
$$$ Finding a reputable shop near you that can work on a turbo S2K and knows how to properly tune an AEM EMS......almost impossible!
Countless hours of trial and error to fine tune all the non-performance things to try and make the car idle and run like stock.

The AEM EMS is a great product, no doubt about that, but it is not for your average S2K owner. This is why I am curious about this product. If I do go turbo, I will not be getting into an AEM. Anyone else have anything objective to add about this product?

03spa

If it's pulling timing and then advancing it's not protecting the engine. It's already knocked, then it retards and advances back to the point of knocking. I also think it would be hard to set the sensitivity on it without having a baseline of the car itself. If you set it too high it will be pulling timing out all day, if you set it too low (like jon404 suggests) you wasted your money. There is no real way to tell if the unit is working properly, or at all. I am not discounting the product, I am skeptical as to what it will really be protecting even as a back up. It does not keep the engine in a safe range away from knocking. It pulls timing for less than a second, but then back to stock.

The unit is not addressing the problem - knock. It's like having a leak in your radiator, so you keep putting more antifreeze in it so the car doesn't over heat.

If you are seriously concerened with engine knock and you do not want to go the stand alone rout, maybe lower boost and a water injection unit would be the better option? Retard controlers are out there too. I think the money would be better spent this way since this would PREVENT KNOCK and engine damage.

Just my opinion.

sHaObEn (=.=)

[QUOTE]03SPA, I see that you have about .25 PPD, what do you have to gain by questioning me or do you just limit yourself to making .25 PPD by ?'ing those that seem vulnerable o
or easy targets

ChrisD

Wow, missed a great soap opera I guess..

The problem with knock sensors (and this is true for ANY knock sensor, EMS, stock, whatever) is that they are post-problem bandaids, and they are very rarely accurate.

All a knock sensor is is a fancy microphone. To establish a baseline, you must do a full throttle, full rpm, full boost run. You then take a look at how much noise is being produced, up the value by 20% or 50% or something, and call that "knock". Then you set how much timing you wish to retard or how much fuel you wish to add to counteract that "knock".

The problem (on top of what YS said, because he makes excellent points that I think some of you aren't really paying attention to) is that the noise level spikes all over the place (it's not a nice level line) and minor differences in boost and ambient temperature make a difference in engine noise. The problem is not that the concept of a knock sensor and knock control unit are flawed, it's that they can only really detect extremely severe knock reliably.

If you have a setup with a reliably tuned ignition map and fuel map (obviously by going to a tuner with a dyno, wb o2, boost meter, rpm meter and egt meter all connected), you shouldn't need to worry excessively. The tuner will (should) ensure that the conditions/boost levels you run are conservative enough for daily driving for a wide variety of conditions. In the case of a mass produced kit such as the Speedcraft kit or Comptech kit, I would certainly hope that that kind of testing had been done.

While this might be a useful purchase for some of you increasing boost levels excessively, or attempting to run more boost on lower grades of gasoline, in all honesty I consider this a purchase that isn't necessarily worth the money.

9000RED

Thanks for the info Chris and YS.

jcurtis

J&S is big for the b series people running JRsuperchargers...

Steve@Evolution

Alot of people runs on J&S with forced fed Honda including JR supercharger. Hell, at one point two years ago, I was about to run it too. Now, you got every kind of flavor in standalone units which can control all knock sensors. However, I disabled the knock control on my EMS just because the car runs alittle bit simple. People who swears up and down with piggy back control units might as well just add this in since no other electronic unit out there beside standalone ecu can adjust anything knock besides J&S.

mesohuanny

I have a mr2 and am from SpyderChat, just dropped in to tell you, Jon, that your wife is invited to SpyderChat, however, we don't want you . No need for drama queens.