cdelena

I noticed that the cars that smoked on hard decel right turns were quite often driven by those that do not heel-toe so I have suspected that some oil consumption problems may be the result. Obviously this will not account for all heavy oil burning, but there is a correlation to that driving style and heavy use with hard driving.

Do you guys heel-toe?

RED MX5

It would take me a while to count up all the vehicles we've owned, but at 33, I think you've got us beat. Still, we've owned too darn many of the things, and execpt for a few notable exceptions they've all been amazing reliable and trouble free. I've owned six Fiats, and in spite of their reputation for poor reliability, we never had a lick of trouble with any of the cars, except for a problem with my 2000 Spider which was caused by an inept mechanic. I know part of it is because I'm so anal about my cars, but it's just friggin' weird.

shotiable

i agree with xviper when he says the real break it may not be for many thousands of miles later... 600 miles doesnt necessarily settle my engine. i think i've already lost half a quart after 3k miles... going 4.... i think... i gotta double check... i keep my odometer in kph

RED MX5

I don't know any other way to rev match while breaking and downshifting at the same time, so yes, I routinely heal-toe.

On hard decel right turns the oil that has been pumped up into the cam/rocker cover area is all thrown forward and to the left, and apparently it can flow out the crankcase ventelation hose and into the intake track. Some cars do this, some don't. Maybe it only happens with R compound tires.

Has anyone seen this ^^ while running stock rubber?

RED MX5

I think XViper is right about the way we break the car in being a big factor in later oil consumption. I also think that at least in theory, reving the engine harder and using compression breaking should both increase oil consumption (at the very least any tendency to suck oil past the valve guide seals is going to be higher), but I don't drive my car without hitting VTEC at least once (usually a number of times), and at autocrosses I sometimes let the engine bounce off the rev limiter to avoid an unnecessary shift, and my car doesn't use enough oil to notice. I didn't break the car in either, but if that's a factor it was apparently broken in properly.

XViper pointed out that he and I were both "vintage" (meaning we're old-farts), and I have to admit that I break in and maintain modern cars the same way I did in the days of points and condencers. During the first 600-1000 miles I vary my speed and load constantly (literally, constantly), and I avoid heavy acceleration. I usually start increasing the rate of acceleration at 600 miles and am using full throttle at 1000 miles. At that point the car still isn't broken in, because the rings have not yet fully seated, and I am easier on the car for the first TWO oil changes (6,000 miles). After that I drive the car any way that suits me. XV probably has his own method, and it's probably as antiquated as mine, but I do believe it makes a difference.

As for how long it takes to break in a motor, a couple years ago a friend of mine pulled the head off his fathers Benz, and the cylinders still had the honing marks. That was at something like 180,000 miles. Technically I don't think a motor is broken in if the honing marks are still visable.
(XV or Slow, am I correct about that?)

Our chief mechanic suggested that maybe the fact that I *always* drive my car hard might be why it doesn't suddenly start gulping oil when I hit VTEC. I really don't know whether his guess has any merit or not.

Oil consumption has never been a concern to me, so I've never given it much thought, but since getting the S2000 and hearing so many complaints about high consumption I've gotten interested in the subject, and would really like to figure out what the heck is going on. Produciton tolerances cause some variance, and I'm sure break in, driving style, and maintainence habits all play a role, but I'd like to have a better understanding than I get from a few "mights" and some hand waving. The more it is duscussed here on S2kI the more it bugs me that I don't understand it and can't figure it out.

SpitfireS

During the first 2000 km after doing an oil change, the oil consumption almost stopped in my F20C.
Now, about 7000 km later, it is back where it was, being 1 liter every 2500 km or so.
(yes, the same oil has been in there for 9000 km now )
I've put "same" in Italic because some of it is fresh.
During those 9000 km I had to use 3 liters to top it up.

There is only one thing that "kinda bothers" me in xvipers reply:
(and especially about the oil comment, the rest I sort of agree with)
xviper Posted on Sep 9 2006, 05:44 AM
The word "better"
IMO it would be better if that was changed into "personal"

After reading about those crank vents I suspect that has something to do with oil consumption on the S2000.
There have been reports of engines that have stopped using oil when the crank case is kept at some kind of vacuum.

edit
There is a lot to read here:
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/mo...consumption.htm

Scablander

If my memory is correct, the RX-7's rotary engine used oil by design as part of the lubrication scheme of the seals at the rotor tips. My '01 S2000 uses about a half quart per 3,000 miles. Right now, I've driven just over 1,000 miles since the last oil change and I see one "X" down on the driver's side of the dipstick. The S2000 is at 32,500 total miles. I'm running Chevron Supreme 10w-30 dino oil. My 2005 Dodge Dakota with 4.7L V-8 has never used a single drop of oil between oil changes (3,000 mile intervals) at the 18,000 mile mark. I never add oil and see no drop at all on the dipstick. I'm using Chevron Supreme 5w-30, or whatever the dealership provides when I let them do the change. I'm still having some problem believing that vehicle uses no oil at all.

I guess the bottom line is, all vehicles are different. Regardless, I can't understand how folks manage to run their vehicles out of oil.

RED MX5

Exactly, and the RZ-350 was a two-stroke motor with oil injection.

, but in the interest of full disclosure I have to admit that it happened to me once. I once purchased a Morris Minor for $35.00, changed all the fluids, tuned her up, and proceeded to drive the thing from Baloxi to New Orleans. The car appeared to be running perfectly, wasn't smoking, and didn't use any oil on the trip. The car only had idiot lights, and the first sign of trouble I detected was as I was approaching Gulfport on the way back to Baloxi, when the temperature light started to emit a dim glow. Now I'd been cruising, probably close to flat out in the little car, for some time, so I figured the car just needed a little rest, but I pulled over to check her out just to be sure. As soon as I opened the door to get out of the car I could hear one of the rods knocking, but I swear you could NOT hear the darn thing inside the car with the doors closed and windows rolled up. The motor was also very hot, and probably had been running with zero oil pressure for some time. As it turned out, the oil pressuire idiot light had a burned out bulb, and the crankcase was almost dry. Still don't have a clue where all that oil went.

Ended up costing me another $35 bucks to get a replacement engine.

I also busted up a VW motor once, because it was a *pint* low on oil and hard cornering was causing a loss of oil pressure. In that case the gauges had too much damping to reveal the momentary loss of pressure, so there was no warning until after the damage was done.

How hard is it to check the oil every time we get gas? That's usually all it takes to avoid problems.