yes, another oil consumption issue
#11
I noticed that the cars that smoked on hard decel right turns were quite often driven by those that do not heel-toe so I have suspected that some oil consumption problems may be the result. Obviously this will not account for all heavy oil burning, but there is a correlation to that driving style and heavy use with hard driving.
Do you guys heel-toe?
Do you guys heel-toe?
#12
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Originally Posted by xviper,Sep 8 2006, 10:44 PM
We're getting into a somewhat philosophical realm now. I don't really believe in Karma, although sometimes, I think that if it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all. But that's just "sometimes". Most of my life, I've had it pretty good, both car wise and life's circumstances.
When it comes to cars, I'm like you in my success rate. I've owned a total of some 33 new vehicles so far in my lifetime. Some have been quite troublesome and some have been gems. Insofar as oil comsumption, I would have to say that most of them have been quite good - no significant oil consumption at all. Like you, my year 2000 S has turned out to be a very good car. I may put in 1/2 qt. over an oil change interval (same as you - 3000 miles). It went through it's stage of some 20K miles before the oil consumption finally tapered off. I never really concerned myself with this because I understood the uniqueness of this engine (exceedingly high piston speeds) and the propensity towards high oil pressure and high manifold vacuum - both of which can contribute to oil consumption under the right conditions.
Being "vintage" guys, you and I perhaps don't take such a cavalier attitude towards break-in procedure and maintenance as we sometimes see in our younger colleagues. I cite, "Drive it like you stole it." "Drive it to redline right out of the box. It'll be a much stronger engine later." "Yeah, the oil's good to way over 7500 miles. The oil analysis says so." People like you and I tend to use past experience and better judgement and sometimes go against the grain when it comes to car ownership.
I suppose we can get a bad car, just like anyone else, but we manage what we get, in as good a way as we know how. Maybe that's what makes the difference between a really bad car and a better than average car.
When it comes to cars, I'm like you in my success rate. I've owned a total of some 33 new vehicles so far in my lifetime. Some have been quite troublesome and some have been gems. Insofar as oil comsumption, I would have to say that most of them have been quite good - no significant oil consumption at all. Like you, my year 2000 S has turned out to be a very good car. I may put in 1/2 qt. over an oil change interval (same as you - 3000 miles). It went through it's stage of some 20K miles before the oil consumption finally tapered off. I never really concerned myself with this because I understood the uniqueness of this engine (exceedingly high piston speeds) and the propensity towards high oil pressure and high manifold vacuum - both of which can contribute to oil consumption under the right conditions.
Being "vintage" guys, you and I perhaps don't take such a cavalier attitude towards break-in procedure and maintenance as we sometimes see in our younger colleagues. I cite, "Drive it like you stole it." "Drive it to redline right out of the box. It'll be a much stronger engine later." "Yeah, the oil's good to way over 7500 miles. The oil analysis says so." People like you and I tend to use past experience and better judgement and sometimes go against the grain when it comes to car ownership.
I suppose we can get a bad car, just like anyone else, but we manage what we get, in as good a way as we know how. Maybe that's what makes the difference between a really bad car and a better than average car.
#13
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i agree with xviper when he says the real break it may not be for many thousands of miles later... 600 miles doesnt necessarily settle my engine. i think i've already lost half a quart after 3k miles... going 4.... i think... i gotta double check... i keep my odometer in kph
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Originally Posted by cdelena,Sep 8 2006, 10:58 PM
I noticed that the cars that smoked on hard decel right turns were quite often driven by those that do not heel-toe so I have suspected that some oil consumption problems may be the result. Obviously this will not account for all heavy oil burning, but there is a correlation to that driving style and heavy use with hard driving.
Do you guys heel-toe?
Do you guys heel-toe?
On hard decel right turns the oil that has been pumped up into the cam/rocker cover area is all thrown forward and to the left, and apparently it can flow out the crankcase ventelation hose and into the intake track. Some cars do this, some don't. Maybe it only happens with R compound tires.
Has anyone seen this ^^ while running stock rubber?
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Originally Posted by shotiable,Sep 8 2006, 10:42 PM
i thought during break in, oil consumption is higher than average... and during spirited driving its also higher than average... i think skipping out on redlining and spirited driving, will bring your oil consumption down.
XViper pointed out that he and I were both "vintage" (meaning we're old-farts), and I have to admit that I break in and maintain modern cars the same way I did in the days of points and condencers. During the first 600-1000 miles I vary my speed and load constantly (literally, constantly), and I avoid heavy acceleration. I usually start increasing the rate of acceleration at 600 miles and am using full throttle at 1000 miles. At that point the car still isn't broken in, because the rings have not yet fully seated, and I am easier on the car for the first TWO oil changes (6,000 miles). After that I drive the car any way that suits me. XV probably has his own method, and it's probably as antiquated as mine, but I do believe it makes a difference.
As for how long it takes to break in a motor, a couple years ago a friend of mine pulled the head off his fathers Benz, and the cylinders still had the honing marks. That was at something like 180,000 miles. Technically I don't think a motor is broken in if the honing marks are still visable.
(XV or Slow, am I correct about that?)
Our chief mechanic suggested that maybe the fact that I *always* drive my car hard might be why it doesn't suddenly start gulping oil when I hit VTEC. I really don't know whether his guess has any merit or not.
Oil consumption has never been a concern to me, so I've never given it much thought, but since getting the S2000 and hearing so many complaints about high consumption I've gotten interested in the subject, and would really like to figure out what the heck is going on. Produciton tolerances cause some variance, and I'm sure break in, driving style, and maintainence habits all play a role, but I'd like to have a better understanding than I get from a few "mights" and some hand waving. The more it is duscussed here on S2kI the more it bugs me that I don't understand it and can't figure it out.
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During the first 2000 km after doing an oil change, the oil consumption almost stopped in my F20C.
Now, about 7000 km later, it is back where it was, being 1 liter every 2500 km or so.
(yes, the same oil has been in there for 9000 km now )
I've put "same" in Italic because some of it is fresh.
During those 9000 km I had to use 3 liters to top it up.
There is only one thing that "kinda bothers" me in xvipers reply:
(and especially about the oil comment, the rest I sort of agree with)
xviper Posted on Sep 9 2006, 05:44 AM
The word "better"
IMO it would be better if that was changed into "personal"
After reading about those crank vents I suspect that has something to do with oil consumption on the S2000.
There have been reports of engines that have stopped using oil when the crank case is kept at some kind of vacuum.
edit
There is a lot to read here:
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/mo...consumption.htm
Now, about 7000 km later, it is back where it was, being 1 liter every 2500 km or so.
(yes, the same oil has been in there for 9000 km now )
I've put "same" in Italic because some of it is fresh.
During those 9000 km I had to use 3 liters to top it up.
There is only one thing that "kinda bothers" me in xvipers reply:
(and especially about the oil comment, the rest I sort of agree with)
xviper Posted on Sep 9 2006, 05:44 AM
...People like you and I tend to use past experience and better judgement....
IMO it would be better if that was changed into "personal"
After reading about those crank vents I suspect that has something to do with oil consumption on the S2000.
There have been reports of engines that have stopped using oil when the crank case is kept at some kind of vacuum.
edit
There is a lot to read here:
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/mo...consumption.htm
#17
Originally Posted by RED MX5,Sep 8 2006, 08:14 PM
(Oh yea, my RZ-350 burned some oil, and both RX-7's used a quart between changes, but I consider them to be entirely different animals.)
I guess the bottom line is, all vehicles are different. Regardless, I can't understand how folks manage to run their vehicles out of oil.
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Originally Posted by Scablander,Sep 10 2006, 10:51 AM
If my memory is correct, the RX-7's rotary engine used oil by design as part of the lubrication scheme of the seals at the rotor tips.
Originally Posted by Scablander,Sep 10 2006, 10:51 AM
Regardless, I can't understand how folks manage to run their vehicles out of oil.
Ended up costing me another $35 bucks to get a replacement engine.
I also busted up a VW motor once, because it was a *pint* low on oil and hard cornering was causing a loss of oil pressure. In that case the gauges had too much damping to reveal the momentary loss of pressure, so there was no warning until after the damage was done.
How hard is it to check the oil every time we get gas? That's usually all it takes to avoid problems.
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