WOW, I assume that someone found this before - but just incase
10-19-2002, 06:42 PM
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WOW, I assume that someone found this before - but just incase
WOW, I assume that someone found this before - but just incase!
I can't believe the power found in the s2k just by replacing the mufflers with a better flowing mufflers.
I would think that every s2k owner would do this after reading it.
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0911/page1.html
Here is a part of the article:
But what about the exhaust? Incredibly, it appears that the S2000's exhaust is quite restrictive - specifically the dual (one each side) rear mufflers. Those in the Honda club that had modified the exhaust were getting a very good power gain from the mod - a no-pain gain in fact. So what sorta numbers are we talking about then? OK, a dead standard car puts out about 152hp at the wheels. (Because our dyno sheets are in hp, we'll use those units from now on.) With a flywheel figure of a (claimed) 236hp, 152 at the wheel represents a 35 per cent drivetrain and tyre loss - a bit more than the 30 per cent often quoted for this dyno but not that far from the mark. And with the rear exhaust boxes upsized a little and replaced with free-flow designs? The dyno has shown that peak power jumps from that 152hp to more like 173hp, a very substantial gain of 14 per cent. So, pretty obviously, Step #1 for S2000 owners is to ditch the rear mufflers for something better.
I can't believe the power found in the s2k just by replacing the mufflers with a better flowing mufflers.
I would think that every s2k owner would do this after reading it.
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0911/page1.html
Here is a part of the article:
But what about the exhaust? Incredibly, it appears that the S2000's exhaust is quite restrictive - specifically the dual (one each side) rear mufflers. Those in the Honda club that had modified the exhaust were getting a very good power gain from the mod - a no-pain gain in fact. So what sorta numbers are we talking about then? OK, a dead standard car puts out about 152hp at the wheels. (Because our dyno sheets are in hp, we'll use those units from now on.) With a flywheel figure of a (claimed) 236hp, 152 at the wheel represents a 35 per cent drivetrain and tyre loss - a bit more than the 30 per cent often quoted for this dyno but not that far from the mark. And with the rear exhaust boxes upsized a little and replaced with free-flow designs? The dyno has shown that peak power jumps from that 152hp to more like 173hp, a very substantial gain of 14 per cent. So, pretty obviously, Step #1 for S2000 owners is to ditch the rear mufflers for something better.
10-19-2002, 08:46 PM
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I didnt think a new exhaust was supposed to make much of a change other than weight savings (and volume)...and that a CAI didnt make much of a diff either....??....so who/what is right.....if the article is correct, my X-mas list has just been extended!
10-19-2002, 09:18 PM
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If a S puts down 152 stock its got major issues!
The whole article is BS. It starts with such a low HP and works its way back up to a stock HP output of ~200 to the rear wheels.
The whole article is BS. It starts with such a low HP and works its way back up to a stock HP output of ~200 to the rear wheels.
10-19-2002, 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by Kozmo
OK, a dead standard car puts out about 152hp at the wheels. (Because our dyno sheets are in hp, we'll use those units from now on.) With a flywheel figure of a (claimed) 236hp, 152 at the wheel represents a 35 per cent drivetrain and tyre loss - a bit more than the 30 per cent often quoted for this dyno but not that far from the mark. And with the rear exhaust boxes upsized a little and replaced with free-flow designs? The dyno has shown that peak power jumps from that 152hp to more like 173hp, a very substantial gain of 14 per cent. So, pretty obviously, Step #1 for S2000 owners is to ditch the rear mufflers for something better.
OK, a dead standard car puts out about 152hp at the wheels. (Because our dyno sheets are in hp, we'll use those units from now on.) With a flywheel figure of a (claimed) 236hp, 152 at the wheel represents a 35 per cent drivetrain and tyre loss - a bit more than the 30 per cent often quoted for this dyno but not that far from the mark. And with the rear exhaust boxes upsized a little and replaced with free-flow designs? The dyno has shown that peak power jumps from that 152hp to more like 173hp, a very substantial gain of 14 per cent. So, pretty obviously, Step #1 for S2000 owners is to ditch the rear mufflers for something better.
Or do i just have a fatal page fault in my system RAM?
10-19-2002, 09:30 PM
#5
Pinky, at the very least, if they're putting down 152/HP at the wheels from 240/HP at the crank... that's what I call SERIOUS drivetrain loss...
I'm with you, raising the BS flag on the whole article. If anything, most of the posts I've seen about people doing serious exhaust work have seen minor HP gains--hardly worth the expense for most of us.
Tim
I'm with you, raising the BS flag on the whole article. If anything, most of the posts I've seen about people doing serious exhaust work have seen minor HP gains--hardly worth the expense for most of us.
Tim
10-19-2002, 09:42 PM
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Yep its been around for a while.
The owner of that s2k is one of my mates. He is on this board.
The article is full of complete and utter bullshit and the shop that did the work is dodgy to say the least.
The owner of that s2k is one of my mates. He is on this board.
The article is full of complete and utter bullshit and the shop that did the work is dodgy to say the least.
10-19-2002, 11:17 PM
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Funny thing is, that I've seen heaps of australian articles claiming similar gains, including one from Lambros published in Hot 4s.
THe problem with all of them, is that the final power is about what the S2000 should be putting out at the rear wheel, while starting power is usually a fair bit down.
Which means either someone stuck a potato up their old exhaust, dropping them a lot of power or else the installers are going like 3/4 throttle during the "before" dyno run to get a lower number.
If anyone told me the S2000 put out 150hp at the rear wheels before an upgrade, I'd tell them wouldn't want to work with them. I'd rather someone sell me mufflers they claim make 1-2kw, than someone who has to fudge their work.
THe problem with all of them, is that the final power is about what the S2000 should be putting out at the rear wheel, while starting power is usually a fair bit down.
Which means either someone stuck a potato up their old exhaust, dropping them a lot of power or else the installers are going like 3/4 throttle during the "before" dyno run to get a lower number.
If anyone told me the S2000 put out 150hp at the rear wheels before an upgrade, I'd tell them wouldn't want to work with them. I'd rather someone sell me mufflers they claim make 1-2kw, than someone who has to fudge their work.
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10-20-2002, 04:33 AM
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Sunder, it depends what model the dyno was. Different dynos have different measures - you can only compare "relative performance" on the same dyno NOT between different types of dynos. Most of the dynos used in OZ seem to give a significantly lower reading than the average US dyno.
10-20-2002, 05:00 AM
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Sorry 2kTurkey. Must have been not clear in what I mean. Let me quote you an article out of Hot 4s.
(Emphasis mine)
1) a stock S2000 has problems if it is returning 155hp to the treads.
2) They're claiming a 20% increase in power from exhaust alone. I mean, seriously get real. Even a poorly tuned car wouldn't have that bad an exhaust.
3) The power increased across the entire rev range by almost the same amount. (Sorry I can't post their dyno charts). I find that hard to believe. Even if a stock muffler was extremely restrictive, this doesn't usually come into play until high RPM.
4) The finished product is a little bit below what you'd expect from a stock S2000. Maybe accounts for the slightly lower numbers Australia reports.
Put this all together and what do you get? The final numbers are correct, and the original numbers were fudged downwards, most likely by either having the handbrake very slightly on, or not pushing full throttle during their dyno runs.
How else are you going to account for a 20% gain in power from a mode that even spoon and Mugen can only extract 1-2% from? Lambros at Hi-Tech Muffler should be working for Spoon!
"Unlike some exhaust workshops, Lambros and the crew at Hi Tech Mufflers don't just schlap any old exhaust onto a car. First they identify the problems with the original system and work from there.
...
In total, the Hi Tech Mufflers exhaust system is good for an extra 30hp. This increases peak power from 155hp at the treads to a very healthy 186 rear-wheel horsepower. Not only were there significant peak power gains, but the new exhaust system also extracted decent gains across the entire rev range. Remember the car is otherwise completely stock; there's not even an aftermarket air filter.
...
In total, the Hi Tech Mufflers exhaust system is good for an extra 30hp. This increases peak power from 155hp at the treads to a very healthy 186 rear-wheel horsepower. Not only were there significant peak power gains, but the new exhaust system also extracted decent gains across the entire rev range. Remember the car is otherwise completely stock; there's not even an aftermarket air filter.
1) a stock S2000 has problems if it is returning 155hp to the treads.
2) They're claiming a 20% increase in power from exhaust alone. I mean, seriously get real. Even a poorly tuned car wouldn't have that bad an exhaust.
3) The power increased across the entire rev range by almost the same amount. (Sorry I can't post their dyno charts). I find that hard to believe. Even if a stock muffler was extremely restrictive, this doesn't usually come into play until high RPM.
4) The finished product is a little bit below what you'd expect from a stock S2000. Maybe accounts for the slightly lower numbers Australia reports.
Put this all together and what do you get? The final numbers are correct, and the original numbers were fudged downwards, most likely by either having the handbrake very slightly on, or not pushing full throttle during their dyno runs.
How else are you going to account for a 20% gain in power from a mode that even spoon and Mugen can only extract 1-2% from? Lambros at Hi-Tech Muffler should be working for Spoon!
10-20-2002, 05:32 AM
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They're using a dyno dynamics dyno. stock s2k's ought run around 165 to 175 on those.
Though 150's definately sounds really low.
The dyno line with the muffler looks about right for a stock one.
For example, with an intake I dynoed at 180 on a Dyno dynamics dyno.
Stock I dynod 201.4 or something on a dynojet.
With the vafc tuned I dynod 187-189 on the dyno dynamics.
So their claim that an exhaust + intake + air fuel tinkering making 195 or so is what I'd expect. It's not that far off from what you should get.
Only problem with this article is the stock test is extremely low. The rest seems somewhat accurate.
my 2 cents.
have a look at the mods section of my page for my dyno charts.
Dave
Though 150's definately sounds really low.
The dyno line with the muffler looks about right for a stock one.
For example, with an intake I dynoed at 180 on a Dyno dynamics dyno.
Stock I dynod 201.4 or something on a dynojet.
With the vafc tuned I dynod 187-189 on the dyno dynamics.
So their claim that an exhaust + intake + air fuel tinkering making 195 or so is what I'd expect. It's not that far off from what you should get.
Only problem with this article is the stock test is extremely low. The rest seems somewhat accurate.
my 2 cents.
have a look at the mods section of my page for my dyno charts.
Dave