Why are our wheel studs so WEAK????
06-12-2002, 08:51 PM
#1
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I have broken 3 wheel studs on 3 different hubs. 2 I broke and 1 was broken by a shop. After I broke the first one I decided to hand turn all lugs until snug then use the torque wrench. Every lug I have hand turned on has gone on without any resistance. Well that theory didn't work since 2 more studs broke after that. I torque my lugs to 83ft lbs. I am very careful to make sure the wheel is completely flush to the hub before I lower the car.
I now clean off each stud and use a little anti-sieze, I am hoping this will remedy the situation.
The only thing I can figure is that some dirt or gunk is on the threads when I am putting the lugs on and when I try and take off the lugs they get stuck on the dirt and won't turn any further. Thank god we have 5 lug hubs.
BTW, I do take my wheels off often. This could also be the problem. The constant torquing on the studs may make them weak. Also, the last stud I broke only the tip of the stud came off. Probably about an 1/8 of an inch. If the end wasn't so messed up I could easily continue to use that stud.
I now clean off each stud and use a little anti-sieze, I am hoping this will remedy the situation.
The only thing I can figure is that some dirt or gunk is on the threads when I am putting the lugs on and when I try and take off the lugs they get stuck on the dirt and won't turn any further. Thank god we have 5 lug hubs.
BTW, I do take my wheels off often. This could also be the problem. The constant torquing on the studs may make them weak. Also, the last stud I broke only the tip of the stud came off. Probably about an 1/8 of an inch. If the end wasn't so messed up I could easily continue to use that stud.
06-13-2002, 01:36 AM
#2
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I lost 17 wheel studs because of a faulty torque wrench back in August. When was the last time you had the thing calibrated? Most manufacturers recommend a calibration every six months. Not saying its the root cause, but it might be something worth checking. The wheel studs are $5 bucks each from Honda, but all four corners will run you around $800 in labor if you are lazy.
06-13-2002, 05:36 AM
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What are you doing to the studs? I've had my car 2 1/2 years and have taken the wheels off a couple of times, but no broken studs. Hand tight with a lug wrench will get you close to 80 ft-lbs. If you have to add much more with the torque wrench, it is definitely out of spec. Do guys that use a second set of tires for auto-x have this problem?
06-13-2002, 05:37 AM
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very scary.... i remember a post awhile back i think it was bkw about his studs just popping off 1 by 1 while he was driving the S. Thankfully 1 stud held in and he was able to stop without the wheel just flying off the car. 
06-13-2002, 05:45 AM
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>>>I now clean off each stud and use a little anti-sieze, I am hoping this will remedy the situation.<<<
Actually, that will make things worse!
All of your studs, every one, should be replaced - they are all partially failed. Remember that lube affects the tension on the fastener achieved with a given tightening torque. So if you tighten to the dry fastener spec using the antisieze, you are in effect over torquing them! When the studs stretch and fatigue, they cannot be fixed. Give 'em the flotation test...if they float in water, reuse them. Keep the theads dry and clean, and torque them by hand in the future. Then they'll last and last and you will have peace of mind.
Stan
Actually, that will make things worse!
All of your studs, every one, should be replaced - they are all partially failed. Remember that lube affects the tension on the fastener achieved with a given tightening torque. So if you tighten to the dry fastener spec using the antisieze, you are in effect over torquing them! When the studs stretch and fatigue, they cannot be fixed. Give 'em the flotation test...if they float in water, reuse them. Keep the theads dry and clean, and torque them by hand in the future. Then they'll last and last and you will have peace of mind.
Stan
06-13-2002, 07:09 AM
#7
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what kind of wheels are you using?? oem's? if you're using aftermarket wheels, id highly recommend checking out your hubcentric rings. ive broken a total of 9 studs since february, and ive narrowed my problem down to the rings. ive since removed the rings and my wheels are now lugcentric.. its been about 2 months and the studs are holding up fine (knock on wood!)
if you have your stock wheels, i dont know what to tell ya.. calibrate your torque wrench.. lose some weight..
brian
if you have your stock wheels, i dont know what to tell ya.. calibrate your torque wrench.. lose some weight..
brian
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06-13-2002, 07:59 AM
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I'm not so sure about that Stan.
06-13-2002, 08:03 AM
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Bzzzt! Replace your studs Cdelena! See below for the basic idea. Always torque to specs using the proper tools and the accompanying conditions such as dry, engine oil, or whatever. Excessive lugnut torque also encourages hub distortion and rotor warping. The highest load a fastener experiences is when it is being tightened. The in-use loads are much lower. It's a good idea to retorque befoe runs and after a bout 25 miles of street driving. Alloy wheels tend to need retorquing more than steel wheels BTW.
Stan
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I checked Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook. The answer was found in chapter three, Thread Physics. The text states that many variables affect the amount of torque required to produce a given tension, including the type of plating, the cleanliness of the threads, the fit of the threads, and the type of lubricant used (if any), as well as the thread pitch and the bolt size. Further, it states that, in dry, unplated threads, about 50% of the torque is used to overcome friction between the bearing surfaces and the work faces (where the nut meets the washer or part), and about 40% is used to overcome thread friction! A quick calculation shows that only 10% of the torque is used to create tension in the bolt. It follows that reducing this friction (by applying a lubricant) will cause a much greater portion of the same torque to be applied to creating tension.
Alternatively, the tension created by applying identical torque to a lubricated bolt thread (and bearing surface, also) will be much greater than that produced in a dry thread. How much greater? A graph from the Smith text (pp. 48-52) shows that about 200% more tension - TWICE THE TENSION! - is created when using antiseize, and close to 150% more tension is created when using engine oil as a lubricant. It should be noted that torque tables for particular applications are quoted as "dry and clean," unless they specifically state otherwise. So, if you choose to lubricate the threads and bearing surfaces of a fastener application, the "dry" table no longer applies; instead, refer to a table that shows lubricated torque values or reduce the torque used to produce the recommended tension.
Stan
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I checked Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook. The answer was found in chapter three, Thread Physics. The text states that many variables affect the amount of torque required to produce a given tension, including the type of plating, the cleanliness of the threads, the fit of the threads, and the type of lubricant used (if any), as well as the thread pitch and the bolt size. Further, it states that, in dry, unplated threads, about 50% of the torque is used to overcome friction between the bearing surfaces and the work faces (where the nut meets the washer or part), and about 40% is used to overcome thread friction! A quick calculation shows that only 10% of the torque is used to create tension in the bolt. It follows that reducing this friction (by applying a lubricant) will cause a much greater portion of the same torque to be applied to creating tension.
Alternatively, the tension created by applying identical torque to a lubricated bolt thread (and bearing surface, also) will be much greater than that produced in a dry thread. How much greater? A graph from the Smith text (pp. 48-52) shows that about 200% more tension - TWICE THE TENSION! - is created when using antiseize, and close to 150% more tension is created when using engine oil as a lubricant. It should be noted that torque tables for particular applications are quoted as "dry and clean," unless they specifically state otherwise. So, if you choose to lubricate the threads and bearing surfaces of a fastener application, the "dry" table no longer applies; instead, refer to a table that shows lubricated torque values or reduce the torque used to produce the recommended tension.