ShIvER

Hello everyone.
I'm new here and a prospective owner of an S

I've always been atracted by the car since honda launched it.. it's engine alone is enough to give me motoring orgasms =P

I've always been passionate for MR layout on cars, but now I'm looking for a change and imediatly I've though of the honda since I've always loved it.

As per usual when I pick up interest in a car I started looking into it and it didn't take to long to read about some problems with "huge" variations of toe angle on the rear wheels along the the travel of the suspention arms.
I'm sure this is a long discussed subject here, but I'm new to the forum and new to the car, and I want to know a definitive answer before I take the jump and buy my car.

It's something that even though you get used to it, I've read ppl saying and I can easily agree with them that a car that's not linear on response isn't exactly what you want from a proper sport's car.
I've also read that honda quickly realized their "mistake" (or perhaps it was suposed to be a feature? ) and sorted it out by changing the geometry of the rear suspentions.

I've read that that change was done in 2004 on the ap2. But after further looking into it I've read in more than one place saying that in 2004 it was only changes in springs and dampers (think front anti-roll bar aswell?), and the major geometry changes came in 2002 at the same time when honda changed the softtop's rear window from that plastic thing to proper glass.

External link on a discussion on the subject

I've looked around plenty and I can't seem to reach a definitive answer on this mather, then I found this forum, and with so many knowlegeable ppl in here I'm sure someone(or many) will have the correct answer?

Thanks in advance and I apologize for any linguistic mistakes as english is not my native language.

Billman250

I'm pretty certain the geometry was what changed in 2004. Springs, a-arms, and subframe.

Majestic Honda has good parts listings, you can check for a subframe part number change from 03-04.

Apex Surgeon

Correct.

flyingtoaster

I would PM Asura.

"Yes the rear suspension geometry nuances across the years is really interesting to observe. I am heiming the steering rack tie-rod ends and adding solid bushings to the steering rack also."

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=731390

Keep in mind they changed A LOT of parts on the AP2 and even more on the 06+ models.

JessCJames

I am not sure on the changes between an ap1 and ap2...

but from a racing standpoint, I have seen/heard that some of the big named, hardcore track S2000's have altered rear subframes to fix the toe issue in the rear. I have discussed this before about my S2000 at the shop that I used to work at with some very knowlegable, successful drivers and engineers that live in my area. We came to the conclusion that the mounting tabs on the subframe for the toe arms would have to be relocated, and new arms would need to be fabricated to fix this issue.

... one problem with all of this, is that there are VERY few companies that make certain suspension components for the S2000. Ikeya Japan makes adjustable control arms for both front and rear, top and bottom. But they are very expensive (around $1000 a set)! I wish that someone would develop a whole "kit" that would include a modified and reinforced subframe, control arms, roll-center adjusters, and different options for bearings and bushings.

Don't let this discourage you from purchasing an S2000!! They are amazing cars and have had huge success on the track. And all the right parts are available to get it dialed in to where you want it. Also, you might want to try posting this in the suspension tech part of the forum. There are a lot of experienced people in there that could definatly help you with any question you have! I hope this helps a little

twohoos

Ashish (Asura) might indeed have more detailed info, but my understanding has been that as far as *geometry* goes, there are exactly two versions of the S2000 suspension: 2000-2003 (AP1 in the U.S.), and 2004-2009 (AP2 in the U.S.).

Now, as I've documented here, Honda tweaked the spring/damper/swaybar settings every two years, for a total of six (counting the CR) OE spring setups for the U.S. market. But those changes do not affect the actual geometry.

ShIvER

Thanks for all the replies so far.
Looks like the 2002 changes aren't real after all =P

I wasn't aware there was a suspention tech forum, I guess I didn't look hard enough!

Not holding back on the s2k at all, it's a brilliant piece of kit.
I'll just prolly hold back for a good deal on an ap2 (2.0l engine anyway in portugal =D )

twohoos

The '02-'03 changes were certainly "real", but they were necessarily limited by having the same geometry and wheel/tire package. Basically Honda softened the swaybars to reduce inside wheel lift in corners, and stiffened the springs to compensate (i.e. to maintain overall roll stiffness).

spook

In order to fix the problem completely, you'd need to change out the rear subframe as well.

blacknboostn

i'll reread the thread momentarily...

@ OP: you speak english better than a good portion of the people that I know (of those that speak English as their primary language) so don't sweat it