What is the Right Way to break in Engine??
07-30-2001, 12:23 PM
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What is the Right Way to break in Engine??
What do you guys think?? I have been told to change my oil right after 600 miles, then the owner's manual says to change at 7500 miles.
I want to use Mobil 1 Synthetic but am told not to use it for your first oil Change.
Does it really matter? What are some technical facts about this? What is the correct way to break it in?
-Mark
I want to use Mobil 1 Synthetic but am told not to use it for your first oil Change.
Does it really matter? What are some technical facts about this? What is the correct way to break it in?
-Mark
07-30-2001, 01:04 PM
#4
[Looks like you found your answer, but since I typed all this up I'll post it anyway...]
There must be hundreds of threads on the topic of oil changes. Here are some facts:
- Yes, the initial oil from the factory is different from regualr petroleum oil in that it has additives (mainly molybdenum). This "moly oil" has come to be referred to as Honda's "break-in oil".
- Synthetic oils have *much* higher "film strength" than petroleum oils. This means that when compressed between two moving metal parts in an engine (and thus exposed to the resulting intense heat/pressure), a synthetic oil will not break down, thus essentially preventing the two metal parts from ever directly touching. (This is the idea behind lubrication, after all!) Petroleum-based oils can and do break down in those situations.
- Most people agree that *some* metal-metal contact in a new engine is necessary to properly establish the (ultra-fine) grooves/wear patterns in the engine -- hence the notion of engine "break-in".
So the prevailing wisdom, it seems, goes something like this:
- The moly additive (essentially microscopic metal particles) probably helps the engine establish the proper wear patterns. If not, why would Honda go to the trouble of spec'ing it and warning against oil changes before the first interval is over?
- If you use a synthetic too soon, the engine wear patterns won't get a chance to establish themselves. Similarly, if you do change out the moly oil right away, at least use a petroleum oil to allow break-in to continue. (BTW, moly oil is naturally "ugly and dark" so don't be fooled into thinking it got that way from engine wear or debris if you change it before 6000 miles. Your engine's still breaking in.)
- After break-in (6-8,000 mi), go to a synthetic and rest easy knowing your engine parts will essentially never touch each other again (except at initial startup after a long sit).
What it comes down to is: synthetic oils are actually *too good* at their lubricating job, and prevent the break-in of the engine. Before synthetics came along, the only way to get a high film strength for severe applications (high rpms, as in racing) was to use a heavy-weight oil, e.g. 20W-50, which is why such formulas became associated with high-performance cars (and small. high-revving engines). That wisdom is now obsolete - go ahead and use the regular-weight synthetic (5W-30 or 10W-30, depending on your home climate) after your engine is broken in, and rest assured that even at 9000 rpm your oil will provide superior protection.
Cheers,
John
There must be hundreds of threads on the topic of oil changes. Here are some facts:
- Yes, the initial oil from the factory is different from regualr petroleum oil in that it has additives (mainly molybdenum). This "moly oil" has come to be referred to as Honda's "break-in oil".
- Synthetic oils have *much* higher "film strength" than petroleum oils. This means that when compressed between two moving metal parts in an engine (and thus exposed to the resulting intense heat/pressure), a synthetic oil will not break down, thus essentially preventing the two metal parts from ever directly touching. (This is the idea behind lubrication, after all!) Petroleum-based oils can and do break down in those situations.
- Most people agree that *some* metal-metal contact in a new engine is necessary to properly establish the (ultra-fine) grooves/wear patterns in the engine -- hence the notion of engine "break-in".
So the prevailing wisdom, it seems, goes something like this:
- The moly additive (essentially microscopic metal particles) probably helps the engine establish the proper wear patterns. If not, why would Honda go to the trouble of spec'ing it and warning against oil changes before the first interval is over?
- If you use a synthetic too soon, the engine wear patterns won't get a chance to establish themselves. Similarly, if you do change out the moly oil right away, at least use a petroleum oil to allow break-in to continue. (BTW, moly oil is naturally "ugly and dark" so don't be fooled into thinking it got that way from engine wear or debris if you change it before 6000 miles. Your engine's still breaking in.)
- After break-in (6-8,000 mi), go to a synthetic and rest easy knowing your engine parts will essentially never touch each other again (except at initial startup after a long sit).
What it comes down to is: synthetic oils are actually *too good* at their lubricating job, and prevent the break-in of the engine. Before synthetics came along, the only way to get a high film strength for severe applications (high rpms, as in racing) was to use a heavy-weight oil, e.g. 20W-50, which is why such formulas became associated with high-performance cars (and small. high-revving engines). That wisdom is now obsolete - go ahead and use the regular-weight synthetic (5W-30 or 10W-30, depending on your home climate) after your engine is broken in, and rest assured that even at 9000 rpm your oil will provide superior protection.
Cheers,
John
07-30-2001, 01:32 PM
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What about using VTECH hard and coming close to redline right after 600 miles?
What about accelerating hard from a cruising speed like drop the hammer to second when going about 40 and gunning it hard?
The one thing I haven't done is to do a hard acceleration from stand still all the way through the gears.
-Mark
What about accelerating hard from a cruising speed like drop the hammer to second when going about 40 and gunning it hard?
The one thing I haven't done is to do a hard acceleration from stand still all the way through the gears.
-Mark
07-30-2001, 01:57 PM
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VTEC has barely been used, I have gunned it a couple of times this past weekend but only came close to redline once. I rarely drive like that.
I drive it real slow actually. I have been challenged to race three times already but didn't give in.
This is my baby and I love the car. Just to think I almost bought an Lexus IS300!!
-Mark
I drive it real slow actually. I have been challenged to race three times already but didn't give in.
This is my baby and I love the car. Just to think I almost bought an Lexus IS300!!
-Mark
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07-30-2001, 02:58 PM
#8
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twohoos,
The only problem I have with your remarks is that they don't always hold. Chevy and Porsche use Mobil 1 as factory fill. Professional engine builders will tell you that breaking in an engine, at least the rings, takes all of 2-10 loaded or semi-loaded passes through the rpm range depending upon ring type. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't molybdenum, when used as an additive, intended to serve under high pressure situations without breaking down?
Point is, everyone has a different opinion. Who is right? Hell if I know. I'll bet you couldn't find two powertrain engineers with the same take on the subject. For those that aren't sure, follow the manual if you can't form an educated opinion of your own (and don't kid yourself on whether or not you're educated on the subject), but don't worry about it otherwise. Until an auto manufacturer actually publishes some data on what happens if you don't follow break-in, I'm not going to sweat it either way.
UL
The only problem I have with your remarks is that they don't always hold. Chevy and Porsche use Mobil 1 as factory fill. Professional engine builders will tell you that breaking in an engine, at least the rings, takes all of 2-10 loaded or semi-loaded passes through the rpm range depending upon ring type. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't molybdenum, when used as an additive, intended to serve under high pressure situations without breaking down?
Point is, everyone has a different opinion. Who is right? Hell if I know. I'll bet you couldn't find two powertrain engineers with the same take on the subject. For those that aren't sure, follow the manual if you can't form an educated opinion of your own (and don't kid yourself on whether or not you're educated on the subject), but don't worry about it otherwise. Until an auto manufacturer actually publishes some data on what happens if you don't follow break-in, I'm not going to sweat it either way.
UL
07-30-2001, 03:10 PM
#9
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Oddly enough, I think we have almost every potential scenario played out as it relates when and to what oil to change to at the first change. And I would bet that just about every scenario has worked out fine. Strange, but true...and it doesn't really answer your question! But I feel like it is worse to change it too soon than a little too late. I'm not suggesting leaving it in for any longer than the manual says, but I think 600 miles is WAY too early...and I would most certainly avoid that...
I changed mine at about 7400, seemed like a long time and a lot of miles, but the car runs like crazy. I went to Mobil 1 at the first change....
The Honda engineers did tell us there was "some" kind of additive to the oil from the factory. They were tightlipped about what exactly it was, though.
I changed mine at about 7400, seemed like a long time and a lot of miles, but the car runs like crazy. I went to Mobil 1 at the first change....
The Honda engineers did tell us there was "some" kind of additive to the oil from the factory. They were tightlipped about what exactly it was, though.
07-30-2001, 06:02 PM
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From what I gather with my research today is basically not to stray to far from what the manual says. I was told the same by the dealership about the "special" oil in the engine right now and not to change it until the first oil change at 7500 miles. Would it be ok to put Mobil 1 synthetic at that point? The dealership said not to but what I think I will do is instead of switching to Mobil 1 at 10500 miles I will switch at 9000 miles to Mobil 1. What do you guys think about this almost half-way mark for switching?
-Mark
-Mark