What negative effect will heat tape wrapping
12-12-2007, 05:39 AM
#11
check my sig for my Mugen ap2 header plots.
The car when a little leaner then stock once the Mugen header was put on.
Mugen header is wrapped and TP is wrapped.
Granted some of the leanness was form the header its self.
Asked my contacts at Mugen what is the average change in A/F's once the header is installed before retuning the fuel trims.
Mine was a little leaner then what is considered normal.
So yes heat wrapping the header does case the car to run a bit leaner due to faster exhaust velocity which increases cylinder scavenging.
Wrapping after the TP does have some effect however the effect is reduce the closer you get to the mufflers.
I have found wrapping up to and including the Y is as about as good as it gets.
The car when a little leaner then stock once the Mugen header was put on.
Mugen header is wrapped and TP is wrapped.
Granted some of the leanness was form the header its self.
Asked my contacts at Mugen what is the average change in A/F's once the header is installed before retuning the fuel trims.
Mine was a little leaner then what is considered normal.
So yes heat wrapping the header does case the car to run a bit leaner due to faster exhaust velocity which increases cylinder scavenging.
Wrapping after the TP does have some effect however the effect is reduce the closer you get to the mufflers.
I have found wrapping up to and including the Y is as about as good as it gets.
12-12-2007, 06:47 AM
#12
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Thread Starter
Thank you people.
I think after I wrap mine this Winter I'll even remove the black heatshield attached to the frame. Between the wrapping and my vented hood....
I think after I wrap mine this Winter I'll even remove the black heatshield attached to the frame. Between the wrapping and my vented hood....
12-12-2007, 07:29 AM
#13
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The wrapping can lead to significant rusting and uneven weld expansion (and eventually cracking). Go to any SCCA Autocross event and look at the wrapped headers and talk with the boys.
12-12-2007, 09:12 AM
#14
INTJ You are wrong and right at the same time.
Wrapping a steel or cast iron header/manifold will (over time) cause the manifold to fail due thermally induced crack prorogation and different thermal expansion rates between the main material and the weld.
Old school headers would fail after being wrapped due to a number of factors.
Inferior (ferious metals) materials use in the construction.
Inferior welding techniques.
Non uniform wrapping technique
Over wrapping/ over insulating
With SS headers such as the Mugen one there is no problem with wrapping the header as long as it is done correctly and is not over wrapped/insulated.
I have a 90 accord that has the header wrapped for over 10years now and was auto X for about 7 years before I picked up my S2000. The header is doing fine with no failure of any kind.
My Mugen header has been wrapped for over a year now with out any problems what so ever.
Both my AP2 header and my 90 Accord are wrapped with thermotech header wrap.
The wrap not only insulates but conducts heat across its interior surface to prevent hot spots and provide a uniform heat distribution.
Wrapping a steel or cast iron header/manifold will (over time) cause the manifold to fail due thermally induced crack prorogation and different thermal expansion rates between the main material and the weld.
Old school headers would fail after being wrapped due to a number of factors.
Inferior (ferious metals) materials use in the construction.
Inferior welding techniques.
Non uniform wrapping technique
Over wrapping/ over insulating
With SS headers such as the Mugen one there is no problem with wrapping the header as long as it is done correctly and is not over wrapped/insulated.
I have a 90 accord that has the header wrapped for over 10years now and was auto X for about 7 years before I picked up my S2000. The header is doing fine with no failure of any kind.
My Mugen header has been wrapped for over a year now with out any problems what so ever.
Both my AP2 header and my 90 Accord are wrapped with thermotech header wrap.
The wrap not only insulates but conducts heat across its interior surface to prevent hot spots and provide a uniform heat distribution.
12-12-2007, 05:39 PM
#15
Community Organizer
Thread Starter
^^^^
Good info, and I am sure I have read what INTJ posted here at least once before.
Rust?, bah, the thing cost me nothing. It cracks, I get another one for free.
MugenRio, the 90 Accord (check my sig) does that have the stock header? And your AP-2 has a Mugen header not OEM correct.
Either way, I'm doin' the mod and could really couldn't care less about the possible consequences. Just wanted ideas on what to watch otu for.
Good info, and I am sure I have read what INTJ posted here at least once before.
Rust?, bah, the thing cost me nothing. It cracks, I get another one for free.
MugenRio, the 90 Accord (check my sig) does that have the stock header? And your AP-2 has a Mugen header not OEM correct.
Either way, I'm doin' the mod and could really couldn't care less about the possible consequences. Just wanted ideas on what to watch otu for.
12-13-2007, 07:58 AM
#17
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I didn't say it would happen, I said it can lead to, for every one of the reason that you stated.
Most header manufacturers void the warranty if there is any indication of header wrapping, FWIW. Does it help, sure, but ceramic coating would work even better and you can get that factory applied and keep the warranty...
Most header manufacturers void the warranty if there is any indication of header wrapping, FWIW. Does it help, sure, but ceramic coating would work even better and you can get that factory applied and keep the warranty...
12-13-2007, 08:19 AM
#18
Originally Posted by INTJ,Dec 13 2007, 10:58 AM
I didn't say it would happen, I said it can lead to, for every one of the reason that you stated.
Most header manufacturers void the warranty if there is any indication of header wrapping, FWIW. Does it help, sure, but ceramic coating would work even better and you can get that factory applied and keep the warranty...
Most header manufacturers void the warranty if there is any indication of header wrapping, FWIW. Does it help, sure, but ceramic coating would work even better and you can get that factory applied and keep the warranty...
12-13-2007, 10:18 PM
#20
Registered User
Originally Posted by MugenRioS2k,Dec 12 2007, 10:12 AM
INTJ You are wrong and right at the same time.
Wrapping a steel or cast iron header/manifold will (over time) cause the manifold to fail due thermally induced crack prorogation and different thermal expansion rates between the main material and the weld.
Old school headers would fail after being wrapped due to a number of factors.
Inferior (ferious metals) materials use in the construction.
Inferior welding techniques.
Non uniform wrapping technique
Over wrapping/ over insulating
With SS headers such as the Mugen one there is no problem with wrapping the header as long as it is done correctly and is not over wrapped/insulated.
I have a 90 accord that has the header wrapped for over 10years now and was auto X for about 7 years before I picked up my S2000. The header is doing fine with no failure of any kind.
My Mugen header has been wrapped for over a year now with out any problems what so ever.
Both my AP2 header and my 90 Accord are wrapped with thermotech header wrap.
The wrap not only insulates but conducts heat across its interior surface to prevent hot spots and provide a uniform heat distribution.
Wrapping a steel or cast iron header/manifold will (over time) cause the manifold to fail due thermally induced crack prorogation and different thermal expansion rates between the main material and the weld.
Old school headers would fail after being wrapped due to a number of factors.
Inferior (ferious metals) materials use in the construction.
Inferior welding techniques.
Non uniform wrapping technique
Over wrapping/ over insulating
With SS headers such as the Mugen one there is no problem with wrapping the header as long as it is done correctly and is not over wrapped/insulated.
I have a 90 accord that has the header wrapped for over 10years now and was auto X for about 7 years before I picked up my S2000. The header is doing fine with no failure of any kind.
My Mugen header has been wrapped for over a year now with out any problems what so ever.
Both my AP2 header and my 90 Accord are wrapped with thermotech header wrap.
The wrap not only insulates but conducts heat across its interior surface to prevent hot spots and provide a uniform heat distribution.
it was used on my Cast iron turbo manifold for 2 years and it didn't do anything bad, it rusted my ceramic coatd cast iron header about 2-3 years after the wrapping.
if anything can be said about the thermowrap, it works, it lower the in hood temperture 10 folds. But heat just doesn't goes aways, it traps within your header and the added thermal load will affect something somewhere.
make sure the MFG will not void warranty on it.
sometime the benefit outweight the negative, sometime it doesn't.