Chazmo

Hi folks,

I've been following airsport's broken connecting rod woes (here ), and I thought it might be valuable to go off on a related tangent and debate the limits of the car and discuss what you guys think the S2000 was really intended to do. The point being that when a manufacturer builds something, the manufacturer should stand behind it. What, really, is Honda's obligation to us (as owners / drivers of S2000s)?

I realize this is a highly contentious issue, and I hope to avoid flame here. I thought a good, open debate about this subject might be useful.

Let me start off with an example. I consider clutch drops to be abuse (despite the Andretti&son commercial). In point of fact, the Andretti ad. surprised the hell out of me. Had the S2000 been designed with heavier / sturdier drivetrain components, maybe clutch drops would be a no brainer, but in the S2000, I consider it abuse.

This leads me to a conclusion about the warrantee... Honda shouldn't cover replacment of clutches under warrantee. Why? Because the car wasn't designed to be used that way. In other words, I don't consider it Honda's obligation to replace clutches that were damaged this way. This all goes back to design intent...

Of course, if a dealer chooses to fix it under "goodwill," then fine. That's the definition of "goodwill" in my book; they do it on choice not obligation.

I realize many (most?) of you guys don't feel the same way about clutch drops. I'm wondering about other parts of the car, and any insights you have about design intent or perhaps demonstrated weak spots in the manufacturing. Tell me what you think about track use, and be specific.

Again, I hope this doesn't turn into a flame fest. That is clearly not my intent.

Gernby

I don't think the warranty should cover clutch damage, but I think they should cover differential damage. If a completely stock S2000 can break its own differential, then it is designed improperly. My thoughts about rod breakage due to aggressive driving are similar. If the rods aren't strong enough, they should reduce the redline.

Chazmo

Is there any type of usage (e.g., drag racing comes to mind, but I'm not sure??) that would alleviate Honda's obligation, gernby? Perhaps not. Just looking to get an honest opinion from everyone.

Gernby

I don't see any reason why drag racing should void the warranty of any drivetrain component if it is done with a completely stock car and OEM tires. The clutch should be the weakest link in the drivetrain. If the differential is so weak that the clutch can break it, then that is about like having an upper A-arm that is so weak it can be broken by braking too hard.

hondaS2001

gernby, do you think this is why honda is rumored to have quietly gone away from such a high revving engine in the next s2k? supposedely it will be 2.2 litre and not rev nearly as high as 9. To me, this is kind of like quietly admitting fault.....

Gernby

I doubt it. I think it is just because they are addressing the "no torque" complaint. They probably went with a longer stroke, which would require a lower redline. I like the power band of the F20C, but the general public (and magazines) didn't seem to agree.

Pinky

You mean Airsport. Right?

Chazmo

Thanks, Pinky. D'OH!!! Fixed it above.

Tedster

There was also a print ad that quoted one of the magazine's 0-60 times. To reproduce that time would require a clutch drop.

Morally, do their ads, TV commercaials, SCCA brochures, etc. make them responsible for damage caused when using the S2000 as suggested? I dunno...

Legally, I believe the warranty excludes damage caused while racing (not the exact wording, but I think that's the gist). Does that mean any S2000 that's ever been used for anything that could be construed as 'racing' (AutoX, driver's ed) has no warranty coverage? It seems that's what Honda wants. We, the owners, naturally want a different interpretation. What do the lawyers here say?

Ted

RedY2KS2k

I'm at a handicap in this discussion: I bought my S2000 used and don't have a copy of the warranty booklet. As I remember it, most manufacturers some sort of language excluding cars that are "used in competition or timed events." I don't believe it is limited to "while racing", but I'm not sure. Unfortunately, I can't look it up.

Could someone else contribute to this thread by finding the exclusions, if any, in the warranty book? I know actually reading the terms of a "contract" is a radical idea, but maybe someone will humor me.