A wet setup
08-06-2009, 11:27 AM
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A wet setup
I searched through this sub-forum and other fora, but couldn't find a satisfying answer to my problem:
I own a '99 S2000 in standard trim except for the 17" 2004+ rims with RE050 tyres in the right sizes. I really love driving my S in summer, top down at challenging roads, but also use it as my daily driver. My problem is the snappy tail in wet weather and on worn tarmac. I already experienced sudden oversteer when accelerating gently on a mildly wet road doing 25mph:
I own a '99 S2000 in standard trim except for the 17" 2004+ rims with RE050 tyres in the right sizes. I really love driving my S in summer, top down at challenging roads, but also use it as my daily driver. My problem is the snappy tail in wet weather and on worn tarmac. I already experienced sudden oversteer when accelerating gently on a mildly wet road doing 25mph:
08-06-2009, 12:21 PM
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[QUOTE=e2r,Aug 6 2009, 01:27 PM] I searched through this sub-forum and other fora, but couldn't find a satisfying answer to my problem:
I own a '99 S2000 in standard trim except for the 17" 2004+ rims with RE050 tyres in the right sizes. I really love driving my S in summer, top down at challenging roads, but also use it as my daily driver. My problem is the snappy tail in wet weather and on worn tarmac. I already experienced sudden oversteer when accelerating gently on a mildly wet road doing 25mph:
I own a '99 S2000 in standard trim except for the 17" 2004+ rims with RE050 tyres in the right sizes. I really love driving my S in summer, top down at challenging roads, but also use it as my daily driver. My problem is the snappy tail in wet weather and on worn tarmac. I already experienced sudden oversteer when accelerating gently on a mildly wet road doing 25mph:
08-06-2009, 01:52 PM
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Tyre sizes: currently 215/45R17 and 245/40R17 (at time of the accident I had Vredestein Giugiaro 225's at the rear on 16" rims; obviously the wrong tyre then).
Tyre pressure is 2.3bar, 0.1 bar higher than mentioned in the side of the door.
When I returned to the spot of the accident a few weeks later I saw that the road wasn't level, so possibly it was more wet at the left side of the road.
I did some lessons in drift control, but ironically when I would have reacted like a newbie I would probably have made a 180 without hitting the kerbs. Now I reacted as learned but too slow...steering the car straight into the (high) kerbstone....
But even more concerning was the hydroplaning of the car. I have totally lost confidence in the car in wet conditions...!
Tyre pressure is 2.3bar, 0.1 bar higher than mentioned in the side of the door.
When I returned to the spot of the accident a few weeks later I saw that the road wasn't level, so possibly it was more wet at the left side of the road.
I did some lessons in drift control, but ironically when I would have reacted like a newbie I would probably have made a 180 without hitting the kerbs. Now I reacted as learned but too slow...steering the car straight into the (high) kerbstone....
But even more concerning was the hydroplaning of the car. I have totally lost confidence in the car in wet conditions...!
08-06-2009, 07:56 PM
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hydroplaning has nothing to do with "doing an HPDE day"
you guys are idiots.
thats about how a tire evacuates water and the speed and angle at which they encounter one another.
wsa the front or rear hydroplaning? if it was the front id either step up tire width a little (or switch to a diffferent brand...check out the faq about ap2 standard tire contact patch). if the rear then id check your alignment specs and make sure the tread depth is ok.
personally i dont like the re050's that are stock very much
you guys are idiots.
thats about how a tire evacuates water and the speed and angle at which they encounter one another.
wsa the front or rear hydroplaning? if it was the front id either step up tire width a little (or switch to a diffferent brand...check out the faq about ap2 standard tire contact patch). if the rear then id check your alignment specs and make sure the tread depth is ok.
personally i dont like the re050's that are stock very much
08-06-2009, 09:54 PM
#7
I neither know much of the re050's or the conditions of the rain or quality of the roads our friend was driving on.
Not to be insulting to the original poster, but I found I didn't hydroplane (without puddles) in any rain at 50-60 mph on nearly treadless DOT R-comps unless it was POURING rain, at which poing I did slow to 45 mph for a while.
Also, unless it's the most poorly designed ramp on earth (or in Detroit, Michigan) you're not going to hydroplane on a ramp (not that e2r claimed that) but you will not have snap oversteer unless you're trying too hard.
Answer: ( no offense meant ) get more time learning how to drive a rwd car, and also, if you want the automatic safetty measure, always drive 1 gear higher than you would normally.
Not to be insulting to the original poster, but I found I didn't hydroplane (without puddles) in any rain at 50-60 mph on nearly treadless DOT R-comps unless it was POURING rain, at which poing I did slow to 45 mph for a while.
Also, unless it's the most poorly designed ramp on earth (or in Detroit, Michigan) you're not going to hydroplane on a ramp (not that e2r claimed that) but you will not have snap oversteer unless you're trying too hard.
Answer: ( no offense meant ) get more time learning how to drive a rwd car, and also, if you want the automatic safetty measure, always drive 1 gear higher than you would normally.
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08-07-2009, 01:31 AM
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The RE050's are not directional are they?
IOW: you can't put them on wrong?
How is your alignment now?
The UK-spec will work with 17" wheels, that doesn't matter.
If the alignment shop doesn't show you front caster (or doesn't know how to adjust it) go to another shop.
There are 3 main reasons for hydroplaining:
Standing water, tires and speed.
I've driven a winter on 16" OEM sizes (yes.. 225 in the rear) Continental Wintercontact TS810 without any problems, they were very good in the wet.
IOW: you can't put them on wrong?
How is your alignment now?
The UK-spec will work with 17" wheels, that doesn't matter.
If the alignment shop doesn't show you front caster (or doesn't know how to adjust it) go to another shop.
There are 3 main reasons for hydroplaining:
Standing water, tires and speed.
I've driven a winter on 16" OEM sizes (yes.. 225 in the rear) Continental Wintercontact TS810 without any problems, they were very good in the wet.
08-07-2009, 03:01 AM
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Agreed: training the driver is the most cost-effective way to improve safety. It has the added advantage of transferring to the next car you buy.
Answer: ( no offense meant ) get more time learning how to drive a rwd car, and also, if you want the automatic safetty measure, always drive 1 gear higher than you would normally.
I hear Kumho SPT tires are good tires on wet pavement.
wsa the front or rear hydroplaning? if it was the front id either step up tire width a little (or switch to a diffferent brand...check out the faq about ap2 standard tire contact patch). if the rear then id check your alignment specs and make sure the tread depth is ok.
I neither know much of the re050's or the conditions of the rain or quality of the roads our friend was driving on.
Not to be insulting to the original poster, but I found I didn't hydroplane (without puddles) in any rain at 50-60 mph on nearly treadless DOT R-comps unless it was POURING rain, at which poing I did slow to 45 mph for a while.
Also, unless it's the most poorly designed ramp on earth (or in Detroit, Michigan) you're not going to hydroplane on a ramp
Not to be insulting to the original poster, but I found I didn't hydroplane (without puddles) in any rain at 50-60 mph on nearly treadless DOT R-comps unless it was POURING rain, at which poing I did slow to 45 mph for a while.
Also, unless it's the most poorly designed ramp on earth (or in Detroit, Michigan) you're not going to hydroplane on a ramp
08-07-2009, 05:53 AM
#10
E2R,
As to suspensions and tires that will work better in the wet...
Wet Suspension: in general, the suspension needs to be "softer"on the rear track, i.e. softer springs (less spring rate) as on the AP2 chassis, less anti-roll bar on the rear (smaller), or more on the front (bigger), softer bump and rebound settings on the dampers (no adjustment on the stock ones). As to a specific suggestion, try changing to AP2 rear springs if your new wet tire choice is still not performing to your expectation.
Wet Tires: the tires need to have both a good tread design (and tread depth) to pump water and a rubber compound that is suitable in the wet. Many extreme performance summer tires and "R" compound tires have rubber compounds that are less effective wet than less performance oriented tires. As to a specific suggestion for a wet tire, I have found the Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 tire, with its "gatorback" tread design to be a good dry and wet tire (albeit tested on a different car than my S). It looks like it's available in your sizes too. Also, as a side note, the extra tread width of your 17" combo is hurting the wet grip of the tire. You'd find more wet grip with the stock AP1 wheel and tire sizes. HTH.
--Jimbo
As to suspensions and tires that will work better in the wet...
Wet Suspension: in general, the suspension needs to be "softer"on the rear track, i.e. softer springs (less spring rate) as on the AP2 chassis, less anti-roll bar on the rear (smaller), or more on the front (bigger), softer bump and rebound settings on the dampers (no adjustment on the stock ones). As to a specific suggestion, try changing to AP2 rear springs if your new wet tire choice is still not performing to your expectation.
Wet Tires: the tires need to have both a good tread design (and tread depth) to pump water and a rubber compound that is suitable in the wet. Many extreme performance summer tires and "R" compound tires have rubber compounds that are less effective wet than less performance oriented tires. As to a specific suggestion for a wet tire, I have found the Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 tire, with its "gatorback" tread design to be a good dry and wet tire (albeit tested on a different car than my S). It looks like it's available in your sizes too. Also, as a side note, the extra tread width of your 17" combo is hurting the wet grip of the tire. You'd find more wet grip with the stock AP1 wheel and tire sizes. HTH.
--Jimbo