Waterless Coolant
01-17-2013, 06:34 PM
#11
It is simply a chemical and it has physical properties like any other matter on the planet which has nothing to do with who runs it.
If Jay Leno can sell me on antifreeze, then I guess I'll switch from Motul 300V to Castrol because John Force runs it.
If Jay Leno can sell me on antifreeze, then I guess I'll switch from Motul 300V to Castrol because John Force runs it.
01-17-2013, 10:02 PM
#12
Registered User
First, any product which claims it can "increase fuel economy by up to 10%" I'm going to be really skeptical.
Even if it only increased fuel economy by 2%, every manufacturer would use it. Over 10 years, which is how long factory Honda coolant is good for, a Civic will use about $17k in fuel. That means this coolant would save $350, and comparing retail cost for this coolant, it's only $50 more. Given pressure from CAFE, if their claim was true, then I'd expect to see this product used by more OEMs.
If you look at the MSDS, you'll see that it's more than two-thirds ethylene glycol. The balance appears to be propylene glycol.
http://www.hrpworld.com/client_image...pdf_3415_3.pdf
Even if it only increased fuel economy by 2%, every manufacturer would use it. Over 10 years, which is how long factory Honda coolant is good for, a Civic will use about $17k in fuel. That means this coolant would save $350, and comparing retail cost for this coolant, it's only $50 more. Given pressure from CAFE, if their claim was true, then I'd expect to see this product used by more OEMs.
It is more than likely propylene glycol. Can be run non-pressurized due to high boiling point. It has a specific heat capacity of about half that of water IE each unit of water can store double the amount of energy(heat) as propylene glycol. Propylene glycol and water does support bacterial growth which is what causes the "gummy-ness". To avoid that ensure that pH is in balance. The system will undoubtedly accrue water so if running straight you will need to flush periodically. Water is physically a better cooling medium.
http://www.hrpworld.com/client_image...pdf_3415_3.pdf
01-18-2013, 10:38 AM
#15
Registered User
Changing your oil filter every time you change your oil? Worthwhile.
Changing your spark plugs every time you change your oil? Not worth it.
07-23-2015, 07:32 PM
#16
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I know this is an old thread but i thought i would help out with some facts. Water coolant actually has a much worse time transferring heat than evans. Being that water boils at a much lower temperature and turns to steam Before it boils it loses a lot of its heat transferring abilities. Whereas propylene glycol (unlike ethylene glycol) will only boil above 375 degrees Fahrenheit therefore keeping the ability to transfer heat more evenly. ALSO while water based coolant becomes steam it does create pockets of vapor that create hotspots on the outside of your cylinder making the possibility of detonation and oil coking much more severe.
Now the statements about "if it were better, every auto manufacturer would use it" are NOT true. Im close personal friends with people who own auto dealerships. (Ferrari, ford, chevy). whats curious and almost angering is the fact that if an auto company can make 1%. YES I SAID 1% PROFIT, then that is considered good profit. Auto makers make MOST ALL of their money in the service department (i.e. oil changes, broken down motors, parts sales, etc.) so of course auto makers WOULDNT use something that will make their vehicles last longer. it would lose them money.
To be honest I've seen nothing but positive results with waterless coolant.
Now the statements about "if it were better, every auto manufacturer would use it" are NOT true. Im close personal friends with people who own auto dealerships. (Ferrari, ford, chevy). whats curious and almost angering is the fact that if an auto company can make 1%. YES I SAID 1% PROFIT, then that is considered good profit. Auto makers make MOST ALL of their money in the service department (i.e. oil changes, broken down motors, parts sales, etc.) so of course auto makers WOULDNT use something that will make their vehicles last longer. it would lose them money.
To be honest I've seen nothing but positive results with waterless coolant.
07-23-2015, 11:27 PM
#17
I know this is an old thread but i thought i would help out with some facts. Water coolant actually has a much worse time transferring heat than evans. Being that water boils at a much lower temperature and turns to steam Before it boils it loses a lot of its heat transferring abilities. Whereas propylene glycol (unlike ethylene glycol) will only boil above 375 degrees Fahrenheit therefore keeping the ability to transfer heat more evenly. ALSO while water based coolant becomes steam it does create pockets of vapor that create hotspots on the outside of your cylinder making the possibility of detonation and oil coking much more severe.
Now the statements about "if it were better, every auto manufacturer would use it" are NOT true. Im close personal friends with people who own auto dealerships. (Ferrari, ford, chevy). whats curious and almost angering is the fact that if an auto company can make 1%. YES I SAID 1% PROFIT, then that is considered good profit. Auto makers make MOST ALL of their money in the service department (i.e. oil changes, broken down motors, parts sales, etc.) so of course auto makers WOULDNT use something that will make their vehicles last longer. it would lose them money.
To be honest I've seen nothing but positive results with waterless coolant.
Now the statements about "if it were better, every auto manufacturer would use it" are NOT true. Im close personal friends with people who own auto dealerships. (Ferrari, ford, chevy). whats curious and almost angering is the fact that if an auto company can make 1%. YES I SAID 1% PROFIT, then that is considered good profit. Auto makers make MOST ALL of their money in the service department (i.e. oil changes, broken down motors, parts sales, etc.) so of course auto makers WOULDNT use something that will make their vehicles last longer. it would lose them money.
To be honest I've seen nothing but positive results with waterless coolant.
I'm not saying that the stuff doesn't work or that it is in any way harmful (if properly applied) but it is of pretty questionable value compared to modern standard long life coolant applications.
07-23-2015, 11:50 PM
#18
How much heat is needed to raise temp of liquid one degree, is as important as the absolute boiling temp. The water is under pressure, so as to increase the boiling temp.
07-24-2015, 02:57 AM
#19
At 16psi the boiling point of water is around 240-245f I've never seen my coolant get over 209 even at the track, so I'll stick to conventional coolant.
07-24-2015, 07:48 AM
#20
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It seems to me the real issue is getting all the water our the engine. I watched all the Leno Garage videos on it and the marketing guru clearly states you can have up to 3% water in the mix before things really go south or, as he says the corrosion and boiling point issues become pronounced.
I like the idea of having a permanent coolant and the virtual elimination in corrosion to the point that water pumps (according to Leno) never need replacement. I have not performed a coolant change but have read Billman's DIY; it seems it might be challenging to really remove enough water/coolant to do this. If it was easier, I thing the increased cost would be worth the superior corrosion performance of the stuff. The higher boiling point and safety of reduced pressure is just a bonus.
I like the idea of having a permanent coolant and the virtual elimination in corrosion to the point that water pumps (according to Leno) never need replacement. I have not performed a coolant change but have read Billman's DIY; it seems it might be challenging to really remove enough water/coolant to do this. If it was easier, I thing the increased cost would be worth the superior corrosion performance of the stuff. The higher boiling point and safety of reduced pressure is just a bonus.