mikegarrison

There is no way you can always be in the ideal power band, unless you get really lucky with the track configuration. Sometimes it is just not worth shifting because the car drops to 5000 rpm momentarily. You lose more by shifting twice (down and back up) than by just accepting the situation. Sometimes you also get corners which are just at the wrong speed. It's better to short-shift than to run out of RPMs in mid-corner.

That being said, I do use my car as both a track car and a daily driver. But I wouldn't be very interested in this mod in any event. I just don't see the point in buying a very high-tech engine designed to run well at both high and low rpm, and then sabotaging the low rpm part. It doesn't gain you anything on the high rpm bit anyway.

Besides, disregarding cool down laps and idling in the pits doesn't make those situations disappear.

However, I think the problem is not with people who understand VTEC and make the choice to modify it. The problem is with people who think the high speed cams are magical and figure that if it's good at 9000 it must be good everywhere.

But as I say, do what you like with your own car.

mikegarrison

Me, or JDM? I probably had about the same track miles total in 2002-2004 as I did in 2005 alone. This stuff is addictive, and the more you get, the more you want.

mikegarrison

And your engine will last what, a couple of race weekends? For the vast majority of drivers, unless you really like working on the car more than driving it, you can have more fun and get more improvement by just running the reliable, stock engine and spending your energy and money on driving.

But some people DO like wrenching on their car more than driving it. YMMV.

Mikes256

I'm certainly not an expert in mechanics, and i'm not trying to add to the arguement, but.....

Killer Cams don't only "sabotage" the low end, they also drag out the high end. Instead of 5,000 pulling slightly, and then having 6,000 pull hard, you get an almost hard pull at 5,000 and an even harder pull at 6,000. So you don't have an immediate drop and rise in power around that area. Now ofcourse, around 2-3K there is absolutly nothing, but you never see that anyway.

Like it's been said before, when at the track, you don't need the low end, so if by chance you need to drop down to 5,000, you won't have that weak pull to get you to the good stuff. It's good power all the way up. And the only reason why you have that harsh transition at 5,000 is so the car is also streetable and passes tough cali emissions, which is totally useless on a track only car.

Now, if what I said makes no sense at all, then flame away.

JDMwhore

youre still missing the point. These cams are made to be used on a BUILT race motor. You wouldnt use these on your stock I/H/E street motor. They wouldnt do shit. You need more compression and something to tune them with.

mikegarrison

[QUOTE=JDMwhore,Dec 19 2005, 09:26 PM] youre still missing the point.

fuzy24

aright garrison, we get it. you dont like them. period. end of story. let the next person post. better yet, leave some room so someone who actually has used them can post.

nodisguise

You're complicating things by messing with them. If I dug into my motor right now to pull all of that stuff out, I would be complicating things. There are reasons for removing the lobes, and all of the vtec hardware, but simplicity isn't one of them. If you're not willing to understand that, then I have nothing more to say to you.

And way to ignore what I said about the gains up top being tiny.

esoteric

Well let's separate something here,
Who is an actual racer?
Who is a weekend warrior?
Who cares about flaged miles at the moment. If you know about something, contribute...
Enough on that... Because we all know my daddy can kick your daddy's ass.
VTEC killer cams have been around for years and people use them because they work.
From Toda's site:
"The primary and secondary lobes are designed to be the same size. Overall construction of the cam has been heavily revised. With areas of stress,rigidity and weight all greatly benefiting. Normal cams are created from solid blanks, but the VTEC KILLER CAM is produced from a hollow blank, which not only reduces weight but also improves valve timing accuracy through a reduction in flexing. The cam is designed to bed in quickly and have a low wear rate.

Characteristics
The mid rocker cam is removed & both pins are changed, reducing the valve train mass for better response. Disabling the VTEC system removes fluctuations in the oil pressure system, securing a reliable oil feed to all the main moving components."

The majority of what is there is fact, not hype b/s to sell their cam.
As stated by JDM they are a race only cam!! The other factor there is what racing are you doing w/ said cams??
You guys say it's complicating things or hurting things by changing parts etc... That's what racing is all about, finding the competitive edge over the next guy. It's not about "well Honda made a great motor I'll leave it alone" You make power by modifying parts and stock engineering. There is always room to improve and yes it may change one parameter forcing you to change another, but then what are we doing here?? VTEC is derived for high and low cam profiles, if you aren't using the low, then why not just have the high's???

If you just want to race a SCCA or road course for fun on the weekends then maybe modifying isn't for you, but a RACER is looking for every advantage he can get.
My .02 cents

JDMwhore

^exactly!

Why completly build your bottom end with high compression ect. Then throw your stock head and cams back on your RACE car? If you threw these on your stock bottom end your car would blow anyways, you dont have enough valve relief.