Vortec SC on stock engine = 45% RWHP increase?
02-05-2004, 03:18 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Den Haag
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vortec SC on stock engine = 45% RWHP increase?
Hi Guys,
I have installed a "Vortech" SC with intercooler on my otherwise stock S2000 (MY2000).
According to my dyno's, the car has gone from 190 RWHP to 275 RWHP, this represents a 45% increase.
I have done no additional tuning on the car (no VAFC etc.) this is purely the increase from the out of box "Vortec" installation.
My question is, does this fall into line with what other people are experiencing?
Also does anyone have any experience of before and after tuning results of the "Vortec" setup with a "Apexi VAFC" (I know it's not the ideal tool for this purpose, but it is the one I have ordered)?
Thanks Kevin
I have installed a "Vortech" SC with intercooler on my otherwise stock S2000 (MY2000).
According to my dyno's, the car has gone from 190 RWHP to 275 RWHP, this represents a 45% increase.
I have done no additional tuning on the car (no VAFC etc.) this is purely the increase from the out of box "Vortec" installation.
My question is, does this fall into line with what other people are experiencing?
Also does anyone have any experience of before and after tuning results of the "Vortec" setup with a "Apexi VAFC" (I know it's not the ideal tool for this purpose, but it is the one I have ordered)?
Thanks Kevin
02-05-2004, 06:23 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Layton
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It sounds a little lower than what other people are getting. I think thats what most people get with just the Comptech(no A/C). It sounds like either the belt may be slipping or it's running richer than most. Maybe Vortech finally changed the "black box" so that it isn't so lean...that would be a pleasant surprise. That would allow you to lean out the fuel with the VAFC. The VAFC should help clean things up a bit and there are people using it. I think the AEM EMS is becoming more popular, but is out of my price range, especially with tuning. I'm sure someone that actually owns one will chime in here soon....
02-05-2004, 08:26 AM
#3
Well my car was making 214 to the flywheel and jumped to 320 hp to the flywheel, with a Comptech with A/C, that is 49% increase. I am not using any electronic management.
Vortech ussually make a bit more Hp because runs 1 psi higher than Comptech.
Vortech ussually make a bit more Hp because runs 1 psi higher than Comptech.
02-05-2004, 09:58 AM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Den Haag
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
214 HP at the flywheel is way to low, it should be around 240!
The drivetrain loss stock should be about +/- 50HP giving you only 164 RWHP.
At 320HP at the flywheel I would expect the drive train loss to be a little higher say +/-60HP resulting in 260 RWHP with the Comtech SC again a little low.
What sort of dyno were you using, dynos normally give the RWHP followed by an adjusted (calculated) flywheel HP.
Kevin
The drivetrain loss stock should be about +/- 50HP giving you only 164 RWHP.
At 320HP at the flywheel I would expect the drive train loss to be a little higher say +/-60HP resulting in 260 RWHP with the Comtech SC again a little low.
What sort of dyno were you using, dynos normally give the RWHP followed by an adjusted (calculated) flywheel HP.
Kevin
02-05-2004, 10:12 AM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Den Haag
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
afetsman,
I agree, I thought my figures were slightly low, but put it down to the MY00 ECU, and a revised AF from Vortec (as you say a little richer).
If this is the case then I'm quite happy as I use the car as a daily driver and reliability is a factor for me, anyway 275 RWHP is not to bad in a car of this weight.
Also, using the VAFC I'm getting soon, I hope to just push that power up a little to about 285 or 290 RWHP, which represnts a 50% power increase over stock.
To help me see if my setup is about right, I would like to know what other Vortec users are seeing as regards % power increases over stock?
It is difficult to compare "raw" RWHP figures as different Dynos produce different results, but a % increase, given both runs are on the same Dyno should make for a decent comparison.
Not perfect science I agree but better than nothing.
Thanks Kevin
I agree, I thought my figures were slightly low, but put it down to the MY00 ECU, and a revised AF from Vortec (as you say a little richer).
If this is the case then I'm quite happy as I use the car as a daily driver and reliability is a factor for me, anyway 275 RWHP is not to bad in a car of this weight.
Also, using the VAFC I'm getting soon, I hope to just push that power up a little to about 285 or 290 RWHP, which represnts a 50% power increase over stock.
To help me see if my setup is about right, I would like to know what other Vortec users are seeing as regards % power increases over stock?
It is difficult to compare "raw" RWHP figures as different Dynos produce different results, but a % increase, given both runs are on the same Dyno should make for a decent comparison.
Not perfect science I agree but better than nothing.
Thanks Kevin
02-05-2004, 10:15 AM
#6
Originally posted by kstokell
214 HP at the flywheel is way to low, it should be around 240!
The drivetrain loss stock should be about +/- 50HP giving you only 164 RWHP.
At 320HP at the flywheel I would expect the drive train loss to be a little higher say +/-60HP resulting in 260 RWHP with the Comtech SC again a little low.
What sort of dyno were you using, dynos normally give the RWHP followed by an adjusted (calculated) flywheel HP.
Kevin
214 HP at the flywheel is way to low, it should be around 240!
The drivetrain loss stock should be about +/- 50HP giving you only 164 RWHP.
At 320HP at the flywheel I would expect the drive train loss to be a little higher say +/-60HP resulting in 260 RWHP with the Comtech SC again a little low.
What sort of dyno were you using, dynos normally give the RWHP followed by an adjusted (calculated) flywheel HP.
Kevin
Kevin
Is a bosch dyno, i do not know the model. The test was made in 6th, is the way that they do it
Traccion loss is ussually the 18% so
214*(1-0.18)= 175 RWHP
320*(1-0.18)= 262 RWHP
Numbers are a bit low but I got 100 extra ponies the same that Comptech claims
I am expecting to get more HP and TQ once I swap the DC header for a TODA Header and I will try to tune it with a VAFC.
02-05-2004, 10:31 AM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Genk
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys !
You should be able to fine tune it with the VAFCII but not without a dyno if you want the last HP out of it !
There is quit a difference between the Vortech and the Comptech, if i see all the topics about it......
@S2000, yes the TODA will give more results, but keep in mind that you always get for your money!
@Kevin & S2000, don't forget that the wheelsize is also playing around with the power... ! Can make big differences !
C.U. Guys !
You should be able to fine tune it with the VAFCII but not without a dyno if you want the last HP out of it !
There is quit a difference between the Vortech and the Comptech, if i see all the topics about it......
@S2000, yes the TODA will give more results, but keep in mind that you always get for your money!
@Kevin & S2000, don't forget that the wheelsize is also playing around with the power... ! Can make big differences !
C.U. Guys !
Trending Topics
02-05-2004, 10:49 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Den Haag
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
S2000_Europe
As I understand it 18% is a general loss calculated for all manual RWD cars when testing on a dyno which measures power at the wheels. This allows an estimate to be made of the crankshaft power.
If you take the stock S2000, Honda say the engine should produce 240 HP. That calculates as 240 - 18% = 197 RWHP. This seems to be about right as most of the Dyno results I have seen fall between 190 > 200 RWHP.
That is the reason for my concern regarding your figures.
If you were measuring 175 RWHP stock, that is only equivalent to, as you say, 214 HP at the crank. This is too low to be correct. As your FI WRHP is also low I suspect that the dyno you used was not very well calibrated, and you have more power than you think.
It would be interesting if you tried another dyno. If the results are the same you may have a fundamental problem with the engine.
Your percentage increase seems about right so my money is on the dyno not being calibrated correctly.
As the dyno is measuring RWHP always use that as the definative figure to work from, the calculated crankshaft power is as it sugests, only an estimate, based on generic drivetrain loss.
I don't think different wheel sizes actually change the power output. All the do is alter the final drive gearing which can of course have a big effect on acceleration and top speed.
The VAFC-I can set the fuel adjustment every 500 RPM, the version II every 200 RPM. I also think the version II can run two different "maps". Useful if you want a non aggressive setting for normal use and one a little more aggressive (a little leaner) for the track.
Pascal are you talking about the "TODA" exhaust manifold if so what sort of gains will it return in an an SC car?
My concern is going to much beyond 300 peak RWHP, will comprimise the longevity of the engine and drivetrain to much. Of course this is a subjective thing as any increase will have some effect on reliability.
My main goal is not to increase peak power much more but to try to extract more power lower down in the RPM range.
One more question Pascal, do you have access to the different gearsets for the rear diff? Also can you get the strengthend diff set from, I think it's Comptec?
If so do you have prices?
Kevin
Kevin
As I understand it 18% is a general loss calculated for all manual RWD cars when testing on a dyno which measures power at the wheels. This allows an estimate to be made of the crankshaft power.
If you take the stock S2000, Honda say the engine should produce 240 HP. That calculates as 240 - 18% = 197 RWHP. This seems to be about right as most of the Dyno results I have seen fall between 190 > 200 RWHP.
That is the reason for my concern regarding your figures.
If you were measuring 175 RWHP stock, that is only equivalent to, as you say, 214 HP at the crank. This is too low to be correct. As your FI WRHP is also low I suspect that the dyno you used was not very well calibrated, and you have more power than you think.
It would be interesting if you tried another dyno. If the results are the same you may have a fundamental problem with the engine.
Your percentage increase seems about right so my money is on the dyno not being calibrated correctly.
As the dyno is measuring RWHP always use that as the definative figure to work from, the calculated crankshaft power is as it sugests, only an estimate, based on generic drivetrain loss.
I don't think different wheel sizes actually change the power output. All the do is alter the final drive gearing which can of course have a big effect on acceleration and top speed.
The VAFC-I can set the fuel adjustment every 500 RPM, the version II every 200 RPM. I also think the version II can run two different "maps". Useful if you want a non aggressive setting for normal use and one a little more aggressive (a little leaner) for the track.
Pascal are you talking about the "TODA" exhaust manifold if so what sort of gains will it return in an an SC car?
My concern is going to much beyond 300 peak RWHP, will comprimise the longevity of the engine and drivetrain to much. Of course this is a subjective thing as any increase will have some effect on reliability.
My main goal is not to increase peak power much more but to try to extract more power lower down in the RPM range.
One more question Pascal, do you have access to the different gearsets for the rear diff? Also can you get the strengthend diff set from, I think it's Comptec?
If so do you have prices?
Kevin
Kevin
02-05-2004, 11:18 PM
#10
Originally posted by kstokell
S2000_Europe
As I understand it 18% is a general loss calculated for all manual RWD cars when testing on a dyno which measures power at the wheels. This allows an estimate to be made of the crankshaft power.
If you take the stock S2000, Honda say the engine should produce 240 HP. That calculates as 240 - 18% = 197 RWHP. This seems to be about right as most of the Dyno results I have seen fall between 190 > 200 RWHP.
That is the reason for my concern regarding your figures.
If you were measuring 175 RWHP stock, that is only equivalent to, as you say, 214 HP at the crank. This is too low to be correct. As your FI WRHP is also low I suspect that the dyno you used was not very well calibrated, and you have more power than you think.
It would be interesting if you tried another dyno. If the results are the same you may have a fundamental problem with the engine.
Your percentage increase seems about right so my money is on the dyno not being calibrated correctly.
As the dyno is measuring RWHP always use that as the definative figure to work from, the calculated crankshaft power is as it sugests, only an estimate, based on generic drivetrain loss.
I don't think different wheel sizes actually change the power output. All the do is alter the final drive gearing which can of course have a big effect on acceleration and top speed.
The VAFC-I can set the fuel adjustment every 500 RPM, the version II every 200 RPM. I also think the version II can run two different "maps". Useful if you want a non aggressive setting for normal use and one a little more aggressive (a little leaner) for the track.
Pascal are you talking about the "TODA" exhaust manifold if so what sort of gains will it return in an an SC car?
My concern is going to much beyond 300 peak RWHP, will comprimise the longevity of the engine and drivetrain to much. Of course this is a subjective thing as any increase will have some effect on reliability.
My main goal is not to increase peak power much more but to try to extract more power lower down in the RPM range.
One more question Pascal, do you have access to the different gearsets for the rear diff? Also can you get the strengthend diff set from, I think it's Comptec?
If so do you have prices?
Kevin
Kevin
S2000_Europe
As I understand it 18% is a general loss calculated for all manual RWD cars when testing on a dyno which measures power at the wheels. This allows an estimate to be made of the crankshaft power.
If you take the stock S2000, Honda say the engine should produce 240 HP. That calculates as 240 - 18% = 197 RWHP. This seems to be about right as most of the Dyno results I have seen fall between 190 > 200 RWHP.
That is the reason for my concern regarding your figures.
If you were measuring 175 RWHP stock, that is only equivalent to, as you say, 214 HP at the crank. This is too low to be correct. As your FI WRHP is also low I suspect that the dyno you used was not very well calibrated, and you have more power than you think.
It would be interesting if you tried another dyno. If the results are the same you may have a fundamental problem with the engine.
Your percentage increase seems about right so my money is on the dyno not being calibrated correctly.
As the dyno is measuring RWHP always use that as the definative figure to work from, the calculated crankshaft power is as it sugests, only an estimate, based on generic drivetrain loss.
I don't think different wheel sizes actually change the power output. All the do is alter the final drive gearing which can of course have a big effect on acceleration and top speed.
The VAFC-I can set the fuel adjustment every 500 RPM, the version II every 200 RPM. I also think the version II can run two different "maps". Useful if you want a non aggressive setting for normal use and one a little more aggressive (a little leaner) for the track.
Pascal are you talking about the "TODA" exhaust manifold if so what sort of gains will it return in an an SC car?
My concern is going to much beyond 300 peak RWHP, will comprimise the longevity of the engine and drivetrain to much. Of course this is a subjective thing as any increase will have some effect on reliability.
My main goal is not to increase peak power much more but to try to extract more power lower down in the RPM range.
One more question Pascal, do you have access to the different gearsets for the rear diff? Also can you get the strengthend diff set from, I think it's Comptec?
If so do you have prices?
Kevin
Kevin
Kevin
Skychiken got 20 HP when moved to Toda
http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.p...&highlight=toda
it is hard to think that the dyno is not calibrated, becase it is the only dyno in Madrid, belong to the Madrid State and is used for racing teams which are situated around Madrid.
Next time I will ask for a dyno to the wheels.
the Differential that you asked is Competech housing, it is a the Honda Diff reinforcend by Comptech.
I got 4,44:1 and I love it, the best bang for the buck I wish rick would made the 4,56:1 when I bought my 4,44:1
-Juan