V-AFC II from Apex-i or Full E-Manage which is the best solution ???????
10-29-2003, 04:05 AM
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V-AFC II from Apex-i or Full E-Manage which is the best solution ???????
Gentlemen,
A question to all you electronic tuning experts out there??????
First a little background to why I'm asking the question and what I'm looking to achieve:
I've just finished installing the "Vortech" SC kit on my car and my first impressions are extremely good.
If you want to follow the progress or have questions you can go the following thread:
http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=149249
Now the reason for my question:
My initial findings are, that with the SC fitted, the power delivery (already peaky standard) becomes even more of an issue. The time from "VTEC" engagement to hitting the limiter is very short and fast gear shifting is needed to avoid hitting the limiter. Also I notice a second power surge at around 8000 rpm. In addition the lower RPM power delivery is not that different from stock.
To help reduce these problems I am thinking of investing in some sort of tuning device that will allow me to attempt to rectify or at least minimise these issues.
Please bear in mind that I currently use the car both for "day to day" use and track days, next year I intend to concentrate a little more on the track day side.
Now the question:
The two devices most used appear to be the V-AFC & E-Manage.
1. Which is the most suitable for what I want to achieve?
2. Which give the most "bang for the buck"?
3. Which is the most user friendly (installation & operation)?
Thanks Kevin
A question to all you electronic tuning experts out there??????
First a little background to why I'm asking the question and what I'm looking to achieve:
I've just finished installing the "Vortech" SC kit on my car and my first impressions are extremely good.
If you want to follow the progress or have questions you can go the following thread:
http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=149249
Now the reason for my question:
My initial findings are, that with the SC fitted, the power delivery (already peaky standard) becomes even more of an issue. The time from "VTEC" engagement to hitting the limiter is very short and fast gear shifting is needed to avoid hitting the limiter. Also I notice a second power surge at around 8000 rpm. In addition the lower RPM power delivery is not that different from stock.
To help reduce these problems I am thinking of investing in some sort of tuning device that will allow me to attempt to rectify or at least minimise these issues.
Please bear in mind that I currently use the car both for "day to day" use and track days, next year I intend to concentrate a little more on the track day side.
Now the question:
The two devices most used appear to be the V-AFC & E-Manage.
1. Which is the most suitable for what I want to achieve?
2. Which give the most "bang for the buck"?
3. Which is the most user friendly (installation & operation)?
Thanks Kevin
10-29-2003, 12:44 PM
#2
1. Definitely the E-manage
2. Even though you can pick up the V-AFC pretty cheap I'm still going with the E-manage
3. Installation is similar. Both tap or splice the loom. A plug and play harness is recommended. V-AFC has it's own interface. A proper E-manage set up needs a laptop or E-01.
Have a Comptech SC and fought with the V-AFC my opinion is it just isn't up to the task. You can't control ignition timing so that's one limitation. You can't really add fuel as the V-AFC does this by upping the manifold pressure. The MAP signal is already too high for the ECU under boost. The Vortech and Comptech kits both have devices designed to cap the MAP signal so as not to confuse the ECU. One way of adding fuel using the V-AFC is to turn up the FPR, then use the V-AFC to turn down fuel everywhere else. Notreally user friendly.
The E-manage with ignition and injector harness can not only control ignition timing, but it can also properly drive the stock or aftermarket injectors. It can correctly read the MAP signal, but cap what the ECU sees. I believe there is even a knock sensor harness now that allows it to respond to knocks (retard ignition). So short of a fully replacement ECU (and I've heard less than stellar reports about the AEM) it would have to be the best piggy back you can buy.
2. Even though you can pick up the V-AFC pretty cheap I'm still going with the E-manage
3. Installation is similar. Both tap or splice the loom. A plug and play harness is recommended. V-AFC has it's own interface. A proper E-manage set up needs a laptop or E-01.
Have a Comptech SC and fought with the V-AFC my opinion is it just isn't up to the task. You can't control ignition timing so that's one limitation. You can't really add fuel as the V-AFC does this by upping the manifold pressure. The MAP signal is already too high for the ECU under boost. The Vortech and Comptech kits both have devices designed to cap the MAP signal so as not to confuse the ECU. One way of adding fuel using the V-AFC is to turn up the FPR, then use the V-AFC to turn down fuel everywhere else. Notreally user friendly.
The E-manage with ignition and injector harness can not only control ignition timing, but it can also properly drive the stock or aftermarket injectors. It can correctly read the MAP signal, but cap what the ECU sees. I believe there is even a knock sensor harness now that allows it to respond to knocks (retard ignition). So short of a fully replacement ECU (and I've heard less than stellar reports about the AEM) it would have to be the best piggy back you can buy.
10-31-2003, 09:34 AM
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Aus,
You might get some disagreements about the AEM EMS. At first UL talked about it's short comings but now says that it is the one stand alone to buy, unless of course you want to go Motec. I say for the money the E-Manage is the best buy, it does it all for the fraction of the cost of the EMS, ecspecially after WES broke the ignition code.
You might get some disagreements about the AEM EMS. At first UL talked about it's short comings but now says that it is the one stand alone to buy, unless of course you want to go Motec. I say for the money the E-Manage is the best buy, it does it all for the fraction of the cost of the EMS, ecspecially after WES broke the ignition code.
11-01-2003, 04:25 AM
#6
You can't really add fuel as the V-AFC does this by upping the manifold pressure. The MAP signal is already too high for the ECU under boost.
11-01-2003, 04:36 AM
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Congratulation on your installation 
You will get use to the car and will not miss any shift. When I first drove the car after vortech + tuining, it felt ballistic and so unstable. It's fun now....but I can handle with more
I think the VAFC is the best buy for your current situation at the moment...if you dont want to upgrade anyfurther as this may void your vortech warranty. The difference with vortech compare to comptech is that it comes with the timing retardation box. You dont NEED anything too fancy to adjust timing.
I currently have a VAFC with the Vortech kit. The air fuel ratio at the exhaust tip is 12.5. There is no knock/ping detected. I am fairly happy with this setup atm.
I will only recommend for a different system if you want to gamble with more boost/fuel injection/smaller pulley (be prepare to find that the drive train of the s2k is fairly weak). The engine management system will depend on what your local tuners are comfortable with. There are so many around and you are not limited by just these 2. You can get Wolf 3d, HKS, AEM, Emanage, Motec etc etc. So check with your tuner.
You will get use to the car and will not miss any shift. When I first drove the car after vortech + tuining, it felt ballistic and so unstable. It's fun now....but I can handle with more
I think the VAFC is the best buy for your current situation at the moment...if you dont want to upgrade anyfurther as this may void your vortech warranty. The difference with vortech compare to comptech is that it comes with the timing retardation box. You dont NEED anything too fancy to adjust timing.
I currently have a VAFC with the Vortech kit. The air fuel ratio at the exhaust tip is 12.5. There is no knock/ping detected. I am fairly happy with this setup atm.
I will only recommend for a different system if you want to gamble with more boost/fuel injection/smaller pulley (be prepare to find that the drive train of the s2k is fairly weak). The engine management system will depend on what your local tuners are comfortable with. There are so many around and you are not limited by just these 2. You can get Wolf 3d, HKS, AEM, Emanage, Motec etc etc. So check with your tuner.
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