INDYMAC

I think you might have fuel problems with your local gas station. Here's a good read about fuel supplier quality and scams. Topping off premium tanks with regular fuel that a distributor doesn' want to haul back to the terminal is popular here in th Houston area.



http://www.aa1car.com/library/us10325.htm

jimi

Have them put that in writing then, Contact American Honda in Torrance Calf. and let them know about this stealership

zeroptzero

Maybe you have a nice Honda S2000. That means corrosion-resistant tanks,


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^ I often wondered why we don't hear of S2000's needing fuel tank replacements, I know on some older cars I've owned it was inevitable that you had to replace the fuel tank due to corrosion. Does anyone know what our fuel tanks are made of to make them corrosion resistant ?, from what I've seen they are still metal gas tanks, but what are they made of ? . Thanks for any reply, this question has been floating around in my head for a long time , lol.

yamahaSHO

Wow... I know about ethanol.


Ethanol corrodes a number of materials, including plastic, fiberglass and other parts of the engine. Corrosion will either contaminate the fuel or destroy parts of the engine, such as the fuel line. However, this doesn't apply to cars that are designed to run on E85. These vehicles are built with materials that ethanol won't corrode. That being said, it's a factor to consider if you plan to convert your own vehicle to E85. To complete the conversion process, you'll need to replace any plastic or rubber engine parts, such as seals and hose lines, that the E85 comes into contact with. Many of the seals you'll need to replace are part of the engine block itself, making the conversion both difficult and expensive.

Alcohol is corrosive and can degrade plastic, rubber or even metal parts in the fuel system that weren't engineered to use alcohol-bearing fuel. Consequently, that antique Evinrude outboard or '60s lawn tractor you bought at the swap meet might need some upgrading to stay together on today's gas. Maybe you have a nice Honda S2000. That means corrosion-resistant tanks, alcohol-tolerant rubber lines, seals and fuel-pump diaphragms, and plastic fuel-system parts that won't swell up in the presence of alcohol. Vintage boats with internal fiberglass tanks often have issues with the coating inside the tank failing, *sometimes requiring massive structural modifications. Highly tuned two-stroke engines will run leaner (and consequently hotter) on the lower Btu/gallon alcohol mix, potentially leading to melted pistons and scuffed cylinder walls. Alcohol will also scour varnish and deposits out of the fuel system that have remained in place for years, which will eventually wind up in the filter or main jet, choking off the engine's fuel supply. Worse yet, the alcohol itself *oxidizes in the tank and produces a tenacious brown glop that's far more damaging to fuel systems than the *varnish we see in pure petroleum fuels. In warmer weather, you can see varnish starting to form within a month of dispensing fresh fuel into a vehicle tank or storage can.
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Ethanol is really no more corrosive than gasoline. Being hydroscopic, it can absorb water if your system is not sealed and water can rust poor quality steel parts. As with any fuel, you should adjust the mixture in the engine you run it in. Alcohol will run poorly before it starts running hotter and melting pistons before gasoline.


We ARE talking about the Honda S2000 here... Gas, left over time can varnish up an plug lines, injectors and carbs up. Keep your system sealed and you're not going to have a problem with alcohol oxidizing. My 1980's and 1990's vehicles had NO issues running and storing E85 in. Ethanol has been in our gas for a LONG time.

Oh geeze... I lost 1 mpg on my Subaru going from gas to E85, while increasing the power by 200-250ft-lbs of torque. My S2000... I didn't have it long enough on gas to figure out what the difference is, but I can do 240 - 250 miles on a tank with mixed driving. My switch to ethanol had NOTHING to do with MPG's or cost. After you've accounted for the mixture increase and tuned the car properly, it runs smoother, cooler, cleaner, and has the potential to create FAR more power than any pump gas (which can be much cheaper than an engine depending on your use). I will give you that you do get more MPG's out of gasoline... For road trips, it's nice to stop less.


I've been doing this for many years with E85, and so have all of my car buddies. The cars stay sealed away in a garage and do not get started. It's hard for condensation to form in a sealed system if you do not introduce any heat. I pretty much push all my customers to convert to E85 for their boosted vehicles. Here in corn land, we're all running some form of ethanol on everything.

And to further this, I've stored my lawn mower outside for the last 6 years with E10 in it. Fires up every year and has never had a single issue.

cosmomiller

I would leave on cruises for 9 months at a time and we took care to store our cars to avoid as many problems as we could. Did not get into the rest as this thread was on the gas part. Glad things work for you. I have had problems with older gas in my generators and riding mower. Sta Bil does improve things considerably. Draining old fuel and replacing it with fresh has solved many a problem for me and I live in a mild climate with low humidity.

Many manufactures state warranties are void if gas >10% ethanol is used. Gas is corrosive, true, but manufacturers know that gem and make engines and parts resist that corrosion. Alcohol is a different beast. It can and does degrade many rubbers, plastics, and compositions that are resistant to gasoline. I use a mix of engines that either use gasoline or a mix of alcohol, nitromethane, and synthetic oil for lubrication. (Glow fuel) I know from practical experience the issues that arise if you mix tubing, rubber, and other components with the different fuel. All kinds of operating problems occur.
I resent the artificial imposition of so called "green" use of bio fuels when the use of them is actually worse for the environment, dicks up existing hardware, drives up the cost of food, consumes huge amounts of scarce water, and creates foodstuff distribution problems for third world citizens. Let the marketplace figure it out IMO.

yamahaSHO

I can't say I have actually seen that published by an auto manufacturer. Got a source?

Not really in the last 30 years.



I think you just dated yourself. Time to catch up on some research...

Zimbabwe

I've been paying $8/gal for 100 octane ethanol free gas. Since I mostly just get the car out for weekend romps, it's not that
big of a deal money wise, and the car loves it.

yamahaSHO

Are you boosted?

Greg W

OP, what Chevron station in South Dakota are you buying from? I didn't think there were any Chevron's in that part of the US.

cosmomiller

Pretty much first Google hit on AAA site:

BMW, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota and VW have said their warranties will not cover fuel-related claims caused by E15. Ford, Honda, Kia, Mercedes-Benz and Volvo have said E15 use will void warranties, says Darbelnet, citing potential corrosive damage to fuel lines, gaskets and other engine components.

Gasoline blended with 10% ethanol has become standard at most of the nation's 160,000 gas stations, spurred by federal laws and standards designed to use more renewable energy sources and lessen the nation's dependence on foreign oil. Pushed by ethanol producers, the EPA approved the use of E15 -- a 15% ethanol-gasoline blend -- in June over objections from automakers and the oil industry. It's been available at a handful of outlets in Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska since July.

But the American Petroleum Institute says a three-year study conducted by automakers and the oil industry found that E15 is a consumer safety issue for a majority of drivers with pre-2012 vehicles. "Our testing of a range of ethanol levels at 15% to 20% has identified issues about engine durability,'' API group director and engineer Bob Greco says.

Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner has proposed legislation requiring the EPA to authorize an unbiased study of E15, agrees with the AAA. "(The) findings affirm what we have already heard—E15 causes premature engine damage and voids warranties, even on new models," the Wisconsin Republican says. "Concerns about E15 are not diminishing, they are increasing. That is telling. When an organization like AAA, a nationally trusted source for motorists, calls out the EPA, you would think the (Obama) Administration would listen."

From another article:

"Warranties void on cars burning E15, say automakers" Consumer Reports, Jul 7, 2011
LINK: http://news.consumerreports.org/cars...utomakers.html
Excerpts: "The new orange label displays 'E15' in large type and states that the fuel is for use only in 2001 or newer model-year vehicles or flex-fuel vehicles, and that it is illegal to use it in other vehicles or in power equipment such as lawnmowers. In response to the release of the labels, nine automakers-including Chrysler, General Motors, and Toyota-wasted no time writing letters to Congress criticizing the proposal and noting that they will not honor warranties for older cars running on E15. The automakers say they are concerned about the effects of E15 on engines, fuel pumps, and other fuel-system components in cars that were not designed for it..."

Another:


WASHINGTON, May 16, 2012 – API’s President and CEO Jack Gerard told reporters this morning that testing by the Coordinating Research Council showed that use of E15 – gasoline with 15 percent ethanol – could harm car and truck engines, potentially affecting millions of cars and trucks. Gerard said despite evidence of incompatibility problems with E15 and service station equipment and incomplete E15 testing in automobile engines, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency approved E15 for the vast majority of the nation’s cars and light trucks:

“EPA’s decisions in 2010 and 2011 approving E15 ethanol-gasoline blends for most American vehicles were premature and irresponsible. EPA approved E15 knowing ongoing vehicle testing had not been completed. Worse, as API noted in its press briefing two weeks ago, it approved the fuel even though government labs had raised red flags about the compatibility of E15 with much of the dispensing and storage infrastructure at our nation’s gas stations.

“Today, the results of just completed engine testing of E15 by the Coordinating Research Council confirm that EPA did not perform due diligence and moved too quickly in its E15 vetting process. The tests provide strong evidence E15 could damage the engines of many cars and light trucks. The council, known as the CRC, is a non-profit research and testing organization made up of the automobile and oil companies.

“Ironically, EPA’s decisions actually threaten broader use of biofuels. Federal law requires blending of increasing amounts of biofuels in gasoline, and most of the gasoline now sold in America has ethanol in it. Yet, if E15 is introduced and vehicle problems develop, public support for E15 and the federal renewable fuels program could erode.”

API represents more than 500 oil and natural gas companies, leaders of a technology-driven industry that supplies most of America’s energy, supports 9.2 million U.S. jobs and 7.7 percent of the U.S. economy, delivers more than $86 million a day in revenue to our government, and, since 2000, has invested more than $2 trillion in U.S. capital projects to advance all forms of energy, including alternatives.

Anyway, as far a dating myself?? I am seeing degradation with todays stuff if I inadvertently mix fuels; problems with tanks and lines. Not 30 years ago stuff. Current, today, with off the shelf components. Chemicals are chemicals, physics is physics, does not matter were in time they are. Not a big deal. Just make sure you check the labels for the right stuff.