michaellongle

I brought my ap2 s2000 into the dealer for pinging that came from the motor. It occurs in the low rpm around (2k-3k). My car is still under the extended power train warranty. Dealer confirmed that it was pinging. they tried blaming it on the gas I used. I told them i use 91 octane Chevron. They said to refill it and drive it another tank and see if it still occurs. I did as they told me, and kept the receipt. I emailed the dealer with the receipt. They responded saying that the next thing to do is to do a "complete fuel flush" and it WONT be COVERED UNDER THE WARRANTY. Dealer cannot void your manufacturers warranty unless they can prove that the "gas" caused the issue in the first place. my car is completely stock... I just want to slap the service manager across the face.

Has anyone ever had this issue with the dealer? Blaming the issue on the "gas" that you use and voiding your claim?

UPDATE:

Took me a while to talk to the Honda of America representative because of work and what not. But I got chance to talk to them today and here is what they said.
The said that Honda doesnt cover the "Top Engine Cleaner" because it is under maintenance. This includes flushing all the fuel and cleaning the carbon build up. I then asked them where does it specify in the Honda Manuel that the "Top Engine Cleaner" is under maintenance. THe rep said he doesnt want to keep arguing with me. I told him we're not arguing, I just want to know where in the maintenance checklist does it state that the top engine cleaner is under maintenance. He never gave me an answer and that's where we left it.

I guess my next step is to talk to the BBB and file a claim.

Does anyone know how much dealer charge for "top engine cleaner"? The Honda Rep. said 250 bucks and when I talked to the dealer they quoted me for nearly a thousand.

Any feedbacks would be appreciated.

QuagmireS2k

Do you have any other Honda dealers in your area? If not contact American Honda and tell them the situation, also mention the run around that the dealer is giving you. They will open a case file. American Honda has the final say when it comes to warranty issues.

I worked for Honda in the past. So i have some insight.

michaellongle

I live in SD so the dealers are pretty far from each other. The pinging seems to get worse everytime I drive it. If the current dealer doesnt resolve my issue. I will open a case with Honda of America.

Sideways

Change gas brand. I've personally had problems in the past with low octane from a Chevron station. I never run it anymore.

Billman250

Even if you used 87 octane, you definitely do NOT, without question, need any type of fuel flush. Dealers are not about fixing the car properly, they are about making money for their over glorified processes.

The car was designed to run on 91 minimum anyway.

Run it close to empty, then fill then tank with 92 or 93.

If you use, 92 octane, the dilution of the 91 will result in your octane being 91.9XX or so. That's how it works.

Break out your owners manual and show it to the service writer.

After that, stay away from the dealer at all costs. The car is reliable enough that you wont need to use any warranty work.

PanteraKitty

How old is your gas? I have had the ethanol crap go bad in 3 months. If you must use the ethanol diluted crap use Sta-Bil with it.

See if there is any uncontaminated gas in your area:

http://pure-gas.org/

michaellongle

I daily the s2000. I refill every week to 2 weeks. The pinging still occurs even after i refilled it at another gas station. Honda manuel states to refill with 91. It doesnt matter what gas station I pump at, as long as its 91 the dealer cant say anything about what station I go to. I followed all the maintenance procedures and have lll the receipts for my services. I cant see how they can say that its the gas because I have no control over dilution that might occurs. If its bad gas, then honda and other car manufacturers should have the responsibility to go after the gas companies for making diluted gas to protect its consumers. Blaming it on the "gas" is like blaming it on Honda recommended motor oil because they said it was contaminated.

Ill probably will take it to another dealer and see what they say before taking the claim to Honda of America then the BBB.

Has anyone ever taken their case to Honda of America or BBB? I would be interested to know how it went for you.

zeroptzero

I would try running a different brand of fuel for a while as an easy test.

You might have some carbon build-up in the combustion chambers, try going out and giving it an "Italian tune-up" - i.e. run it hard/give it shit and blow out the carbon , lol. Cleaning of the combustion chamber can sometimes help but who knows what products really work, too many snake oil products out there. Improper spark plug heat range could cause detonation, but you would likely know if the plugs were changed at any time in the past. If the problem continues a colder spark plug heat range could help - like NGK 8, though it shouldn't be needed if the engine was running correctly. Maybe your engine is running lean ?. You could have an oil seepage issue going on within the engine, excessive oil vapours can induce detonation. Check your sparkplugs to see if any are oil soaked, check your pcv valve, maybe consider changing to a different brand/viscosity of oil. Just throwing out some ideas. Inspecting your spark plugs would be a good start, you can see evidence of detonation on the white ceramic insulator around the firing tip if you inspect it with a strong magnifying glass - silver deposits of metal adhere to the plug insulator.

Auto manufacturers are always trying to avoid repairs related to fuel concerns, and it is getting worse as the fuel industry is constantly making changes for reasons other than vehicle longevity. It's not always the vehicle manufacturer's fault, they have been at odds with fuel suppliers for many years going back to fuel additives and now ethanol levels.

yamahaSHO

I store 3 of my cars for 6 months a year with E85... What's the issue with "ethanol crap"?




There is an statement in the S2000 quick reference guide about certain gas containing something (can't remember) voiding your warranty... Or something like that. I read it on the back just before I threw it away. I believe it was geared towards emissions items. Do I believe pinging is caused from this? No. Start logging your car with an OBD reader and see what it's saying. Check your plugs, etc, etc.

cosmomiller

Ethanol corrodes a number of materials, including plastic, fiberglass and other parts of the engine. Corrosion will either contaminate the fuel or destroy parts of the engine, such as the fuel line. However, this doesn't apply to cars that are designed to run on E85. These vehicles are built with materials that ethanol won't corrode. That being said, it's a factor to consider if you plan to convert your own vehicle to E85. To complete the conversion process, you'll need to replace any plastic or rubber engine parts, such as seals and hose lines, that the E85 comes into contact with. Many of the seals you'll need to replace are part of the engine block itself, making the conversion both difficult and expensive.

Alcohol is corrosive and can degrade plastic, rubber or even metal parts in the fuel system that weren't engineered to use alcohol-bearing fuel. Consequently, that antique Evinrude outboard or '60s lawn tractor you bought at the swap meet might need some upgrading to stay together on today's gas. Maybe you have a nice Honda S2000. That means corrosion-resistant tanks, alcohol-tolerant rubber lines, seals and fuel-pump diaphragms, and plastic fuel-system parts that won't swell up in the presence of alcohol. Vintage boats with internal fiberglass tanks often have issues with the coating inside the tank failing, *sometimes requiring massive structural modifications. Highly tuned two-stroke engines will run leaner (and consequently hotter) on the lower Btu/gallon alcohol mix, potentially leading to melted pistons and scuffed cylinder walls. Alcohol will also scour varnish and deposits out of the fuel system that have remained in place for years, which will eventually wind up in the filter or main jet, choking off the engine's fuel supply. Worse yet, the alcohol itself *oxidizes in the tank and produces a tenacious brown glop that's far more damaging to fuel systems than the *varnish we see in pure petroleum fuels. In warmer weather, you can see varnish starting to form within a month of dispensing fresh fuel into a vehicle tank or storage can.

When you buy E85 at the pump, it does not cost more than gasoline. It costs less, but this is without taking into account how much energy you get out of E85 versus gasoline. You get about 25 to 30 percent less energy from ethanol. For example, to determine the comparative price of E85, with a purchase price of $2.49/gallon, you would divide this figure by .70 to get the true value of $3.56/gallon. The important factor here is to look at the numbers comparatively. Although E85 may look less expensive at a first glance, it's often not when you start doing the math and comparing the relative numbers.

Since you are storing your vehicles for long periods of time you should take certain steps. Condensation in the tank is a problem in stored vehicles, and it is widely suggested that you fill the tank completely with Premium non-alcohol fuel in order to avoid any empty space where water can accumulate. However, the gasoline can become "gummy" over time, so it is useful to add a gasoline stabilizer, which is available for lawn mowers and other seasonal yard equipment. The best is Sta-bil, to prevent ethanol buildup and protect the engine from gum, varnish and rust. The fuel stabilizer will prevent the gas from deteriorating for up to 12 months.In some areas, premium gas does not contain ethanol which is corrosive and can release water when stored for long periods.