total seal piston rings
03-21-2006, 03:43 PM
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total seal piston rings
i've put some total seal piston rings in my car and i set everything to spec, head was machined out and block was bored out and flat deck, did a compression check and found 210psi and i am pulling a vacuum of 23inhg and each cylinder has a leak down of 5%, total seal says 3%leakage is normal. the only drawback is that i'm burning oil. it's been 2k miles already. i'm stumpped can't figure out why. help?
03-22-2006, 06:46 PM
#3
im sorry but you are one of at least two people who have had problems with these rings in the past(myself being the other one). i have heard alot of talk about others having the same problems in honda engines.
mine never stopped VISIBLY burning oil above 3000 rpm in a D16 in my civic after a fresh bore/hone. I pulled em out after 4000 miles, re-honed, and dropped in a set of honda rings. took about 20 miles of easy driving, and there was no smoke ever seen again. this was the first and last time that I tried Totalseal rings and I personally feel like I was ripped off, as the OEM set performed their job better and cost half as much(for me).
mine never stopped VISIBLY burning oil above 3000 rpm in a D16 in my civic after a fresh bore/hone. I pulled em out after 4000 miles, re-honed, and dropped in a set of honda rings. took about 20 miles of easy driving, and there was no smoke ever seen again. this was the first and last time that I tried Totalseal rings and I personally feel like I was ripped off, as the OEM set performed their job better and cost half as much(for me).
03-22-2006, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by kamjison,Mar 21 2006, 04:43 PM
i've put some total seal piston rings in my car and i set everything to spec, head was machined out and block was bored out and flat deck, did a compression check and found 210psi and i am pulling a vacuum of 23inhg and each cylinder has a leak down of 5%, total seal says 3%leakage is normal. the only drawback is that i'm burning oil. it's been 2k miles already. i'm stumpped can't figure out why. help?
03-22-2006, 07:51 PM
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In my experience Total Seal rings are very hard and take a long time 5000+ miles to seat properly. I would stick with them, I've had good luck with them in the long haul from Honda's to turbo Neon's.
03-23-2006, 07:21 AM
#7
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Total Seal rings take more time to seat, and WILL burn oil during the break-in. Stick with it. If oil consumption does not improve after another 3-4 thousand miles, you may have a problem.
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03-23-2006, 01:51 PM
#8
FWIW, I've rebuilt a few race engines with Total seal rings where the owner complained or high oil consumption.
Before dissassembly of the last one I did a cold leakdown and got 10-15% with most of the leakdown going into the crankcase rather than the valves. With conventional rings after running it the same engine leaked down at 3% cold. Oil consumption also dropped with the conventional rings.
The Total seals use a two piece ring which is thinner and may have some flutter at high rpm.
3-5% cold is normally considered good.
My view is if a properly built engine with convential rings doesnt have a leak down problem, then why fit more complicated multipiece rings.
Before dissassembly of the last one I did a cold leakdown and got 10-15% with most of the leakdown going into the crankcase rather than the valves. With conventional rings after running it the same engine leaked down at 3% cold. Oil consumption also dropped with the conventional rings.
The Total seals use a two piece ring which is thinner and may have some flutter at high rpm.
3-5% cold is normally considered good.
My view is if a properly built engine with convential rings doesnt have a leak down problem, then why fit more complicated multipiece rings.
03-23-2006, 01:57 PM
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the correct leakdown is about 10% give or take 2%, and i'm burning abotu 1qt. every 500 miles. i also rebored out my block 20 over so it's not a dramatic difference. it's been about 2k miles since i put them in and i'm still burningn oil. although the vacuum gauge doesn't bounce as if there was if there was a leak from the valve guides or anywhere in the head. the intake runners are clean so i know it's not coming from the pcv. toatl seal says it's from the head due to the fact it mostly loads up during idle when it's the greatest vacuum. still questioning that? i have no clue where it might be coming from? without doing another tear down i'm lost. should i still leat it break in any further? frustrated....
03-23-2006, 06:27 PM
#10
10% leakdown is on the higher end of acceptable. When you do a leakdown, disconnect the cam cover breather (one without the PCV valve) and listen there. If you can hear air then the problem is in the piston/ring/bore area.
Listen also to the inside of the inlet manifold through the throttle plate, and the exhaust ports if possible to see if the leakage is through the valves. Use a short length of rubber hose against your ear as a stethescope.
With 10% leakdown you should hear it rushing out of the cam cover if its ring/piston/bore related.
Good luck
Listen also to the inside of the inlet manifold through the throttle plate, and the exhaust ports if possible to see if the leakage is through the valves. Use a short length of rubber hose against your ear as a stethescope.
With 10% leakdown you should hear it rushing out of the cam cover if its ring/piston/bore related.
Good luck