Thoughts on Comptech vs. Speedcraft
08-30-2002, 10:28 PM
#11
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correct me if i'm wrong, but there is no one out there flogging a SPEEDCRAFT or other turbo on the street and roadraceing tracks
with routine abandon. i would if it could be done....but it appears to be more of a rice gearhead excercise than plug and play enough for people who actual can steer and brake at the same time. until it is, the "crank driven turbo" kit by Comptech, and putatively Vortech are in a class by themselves. an S2000, 360 MODENA, E46 m3 and all forms of single seater race cars are relatively torque handicapped. i've come to grips with it and now appreciate a mad top end rush with a hole in the bottom, as long as its really mad. It is poorly served for turbo builders/tuners to try to placate the need for a big midrange boost, just go with the laws of physics and make mad top end power that squashes an S/C, once u have insane power period, the relative deficiency in midrange is a way more tolerable and easily accepted compromise. it accentuates the percieved accelerative force over a slate flat torque curve and better maximizes the long rev range and small displacement charicteristics of the F20c.
with routine abandon. i would if it could be done....but it appears to be more of a rice gearhead excercise than plug and play enough for people who actual can steer and brake at the same time. until it is, the "crank driven turbo" kit by Comptech, and putatively Vortech are in a class by themselves. an S2000, 360 MODENA, E46 m3 and all forms of single seater race cars are relatively torque handicapped. i've come to grips with it and now appreciate a mad top end rush with a hole in the bottom, as long as its really mad. It is poorly served for turbo builders/tuners to try to placate the need for a big midrange boost, just go with the laws of physics and make mad top end power that squashes an S/C, once u have insane power period, the relative deficiency in midrange is a way more tolerable and easily accepted compromise. it accentuates the percieved accelerative force over a slate flat torque curve and better maximizes the long rev range and small displacement charicteristics of the F20c.
08-30-2002, 11:08 PM
#12
There is one SpeedCraft turbo owner who is getting involved in track events... We'll see in the next few months how it turns out from a reliability standpoint.
08-30-2002, 11:43 PM
#13
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Pardon? While this thread is discussing the two kits, this post really has nothing to do with the actual topics being covered.
That said, the Speedcraft kit is dramatically faster in a straight line than the standard centri supercharger kits out there. On the track, I don't know, but I suspect that in the hands of a good driver the turbo would be quicker, although it will be noticeably harder to extract maximum performance from thanks to the boost onset issues. Frankly, I question the viability of long term track use for either approach on an S2000 engine running factory compression and ECU. Its an expensive mess waiting to happen.
UL
That said, the Speedcraft kit is dramatically faster in a straight line than the standard centri supercharger kits out there. On the track, I don't know, but I suspect that in the hands of a good driver the turbo would be quicker, although it will be noticeably harder to extract maximum performance from thanks to the boost onset issues. Frankly, I question the viability of long term track use for either approach on an S2000 engine running factory compression and ECU. Its an expensive mess waiting to happen.
UL
Originally posted by sfphinkterMC
correct me if i'm wrong, but there is no one out there flogging a SPEEDCRAFT or other turbo on the street and roadraceing tracks
with routine abandon. i would if it could be done....but it appears to be more of a rice gearhead excercise than plug and play enough for people who actual can steer and brake at the same time. until it is, the "crank driven turbo" kit by Comptech, and putatively Vortech are in a class by themselves. an S2000, 360 MODENA, E46 m3 and all forms of single seater race cars are relatively torque handicapped. i've come to grips with it and now appreciate a mad top end rush with a hole in the bottom, as long as its really mad. It is poorly served for turbo builders/tuners to try to placate the need for a big midrange boost, just go with the laws of physics and make mad top end power that squashes an S/C, once u have insane power period, the relative deficiency in midrange is a way more tolerable and easily accepted compromise. it accentuates the percieved accelerative force over a slate flat torque curve and better maximizes the long rev range and small displacement charicteristics of the F20c.
correct me if i'm wrong, but there is no one out there flogging a SPEEDCRAFT or other turbo on the street and roadraceing tracks
with routine abandon. i would if it could be done....but it appears to be more of a rice gearhead excercise than plug and play enough for people who actual can steer and brake at the same time. until it is, the "crank driven turbo" kit by Comptech, and putatively Vortech are in a class by themselves. an S2000, 360 MODENA, E46 m3 and all forms of single seater race cars are relatively torque handicapped. i've come to grips with it and now appreciate a mad top end rush with a hole in the bottom, as long as its really mad. It is poorly served for turbo builders/tuners to try to placate the need for a big midrange boost, just go with the laws of physics and make mad top end power that squashes an S/C, once u have insane power period, the relative deficiency in midrange is a way more tolerable and easily accepted compromise. it accentuates the percieved accelerative force over a slate flat torque curve and better maximizes the long rev range and small displacement charicteristics of the F20c.
08-31-2002, 06:07 AM
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Funny, I had often wondered the same thing to myself...
I am sure part of the motivation for selecting the 60-1 turbo is the sizing, because the area down there is EXTREMELY tight. The motor mount actually sits between the exhaust and intake sides of the turbo. (!)
Going with any larger of a turbo would be impossible or very difficult with out some major work (cutting the frame.) The other option is to go with a top mount turbo, which is kind of the ultimate solution.
Chris
I am sure part of the motivation for selecting the 60-1 turbo is the sizing, because the area down there is EXTREMELY tight. The motor mount actually sits between the exhaust and intake sides of the turbo. (!)
Going with any larger of a turbo would be impossible or very difficult with out some major work (cutting the frame.) The other option is to go with a top mount turbo, which is kind of the ultimate solution.
Chris
08-31-2002, 08:06 AM
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I'm kind of surprised that alot of people that have ZERO experience with the Speedcraft set up other than some posted pics and dynos continually give there opinion on it as if it were fact. There are pros and cons to both the supercharger setups and the Speedcraft turbo but until you have EXPERIENCED either then you're just speculating. As for 'flogging a Speedcraft setup... you're right it hasn't been done on the track but it has been done on the street. When I had mine... I ran a high mix of race gas all of the time and stayed in the 8-10 psi range and ran hard pretty much all of the time. From what I gather ChrisD has done much of the same and has yet to have any issues other than his clutch.
08-31-2002, 05:46 PM
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that's the problem.....there's essentially ZERO experience with the Speedcraft Turbo available to me and this community. its a mythical beast, a unicorn,....i wanna play with it!
Since UL's intent for thread is his thoughts on comparing each,
let's go ahead and do just that.
please share your experience more thoroughly, i'll go first:
Comptech S/C, ESM, flywheel, test pipe w/ dual supertrapp exh.
greater 12,000 total miles.
13 roadracing track days.
regular (1-4d/wk) caynon driving to 10/10th's limit(mine).
142mph jaunt across death valley that led to the demise of a NA
S2K (#4 cylinder failure) traveling with.
cataytic converter failure x 1/ O2 sensor x 2, solved w/ test pipe( causes non-flashing CEL), no down time or loss of performance with failed cat, just checked code until test pipe swapped. have new warrantied(no charge, thanks HONDA), unused cat to replace at emissions check(otherwise CARB legal).
Main bracket crack, solved with elastic bushing bracket upgrade, no charge parts and labor under warranty(thanks Comptech),
no performance loss driving while cracked until fix ,including 2 consecutive track days.
my mechanical MAP checkvalve worked well except for 2min before fully 3 bars warm(slight cough), ESM solved and slightly crisper fully warm throttle response.
Otherwise, flawless experience. Never overheated, doesn't consume oil, starts, idles without flaw.
Sound from exhaust is increased and pleasantly deeper, even with OEM exh, god-like exhaust tone with supertrapps at 12 discs
PERFORMANCE: no dyno (was down at install, am owed a pull)
no 1/4 mile times. car is significantly lightened and is a very fast and explosive car that blows me completely away every time i drive it. incidentally car turns well too(extensive handling mods as well).
i have GPS data logger so i could generate accurate roll-on acceleration numbers, eg. 10-100mph, etc. and compute power figures, which i guess i should. this gear easily transfers to another vehicle so data for comparison in a turbo could be achieved.
i have a set of J's racing 4.44 diff gears to be installed any day, plan on adding comptech aftercooler when(if) released, and probably comptech header.
let's hear a turbo story, the good, bad and ugly
Since UL's intent for thread is his thoughts on comparing each,
let's go ahead and do just that.
please share your experience more thoroughly, i'll go first:
Comptech S/C, ESM, flywheel, test pipe w/ dual supertrapp exh.
greater 12,000 total miles.
13 roadracing track days.
regular (1-4d/wk) caynon driving to 10/10th's limit(mine).
142mph jaunt across death valley that led to the demise of a NA
S2K (#4 cylinder failure) traveling with.
cataytic converter failure x 1/ O2 sensor x 2, solved w/ test pipe( causes non-flashing CEL), no down time or loss of performance with failed cat, just checked code until test pipe swapped. have new warrantied(no charge, thanks HONDA), unused cat to replace at emissions check(otherwise CARB legal).
Main bracket crack, solved with elastic bushing bracket upgrade, no charge parts and labor under warranty(thanks Comptech),
no performance loss driving while cracked until fix ,including 2 consecutive track days.
my mechanical MAP checkvalve worked well except for 2min before fully 3 bars warm(slight cough), ESM solved and slightly crisper fully warm throttle response.
Otherwise, flawless experience. Never overheated, doesn't consume oil, starts, idles without flaw.
Sound from exhaust is increased and pleasantly deeper, even with OEM exh, god-like exhaust tone with supertrapps at 12 discs
PERFORMANCE: no dyno (was down at install, am owed a pull)
no 1/4 mile times. car is significantly lightened and is a very fast and explosive car that blows me completely away every time i drive it. incidentally car turns well too(extensive handling mods as well).
i have GPS data logger so i could generate accurate roll-on acceleration numbers, eg. 10-100mph, etc. and compute power figures, which i guess i should. this gear easily transfers to another vehicle so data for comparison in a turbo could be achieved.
i have a set of J's racing 4.44 diff gears to be installed any day, plan on adding comptech aftercooler when(if) released, and probably comptech header.
let's hear a turbo story, the good, bad and ugly
08-31-2002, 06:24 PM
#18
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Please don't hijack the thread sfphinkter. Note the first line I wrote in my post:
-- Disclaimer-- This thread is not initiated to discuss which is better, worse, cheaper, more expensive, more driveable, etc. Both kits work as advertised. I only want to discuss some critical differences in performance and the components of the kits that may create those differences.
Let's keep the anecdotal stuff to a minimum. If you have something to offer on the compressor maps, dyno charts, measured acceleration times, etc. then by all means contribute. But if this thread turns into "my FI kit is better than your FI kit" (and I know where both you and derryck stand on the issue as examples) I will have the mods lock it post haste. Start another thread if you'd like to talk about something else, K?
UL
-- Disclaimer-- This thread is not initiated to discuss which is better, worse, cheaper, more expensive, more driveable, etc. Both kits work as advertised. I only want to discuss some critical differences in performance and the components of the kits that may create those differences.
Let's keep the anecdotal stuff to a minimum. If you have something to offer on the compressor maps, dyno charts, measured acceleration times, etc. then by all means contribute. But if this thread turns into "my FI kit is better than your FI kit" (and I know where both you and derryck stand on the issue as examples) I will have the mods lock it post haste. Start another thread if you'd like to talk about something else, K?
UL
09-20-2002, 12:40 PM
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Hmmm lets see. Would you buy a turbo thats a custom and comes from a small garage shop in orange park florida or would you go with a big known brand who produces mass amounts of their products such as Vortech and Comptech. Lets be serious here. At this point it seems as though the superchargers are the way to go especially if you get it tuned properly. 