For those who use Mobil 1 Synthetic
06-12-2007, 11:40 AM
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For those who use Mobil 1 Synthetic
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php...ghlight=mobil+1
from the OP, 'derek173'
Mobile1 is no longer a true synthetic
Mobil sued Castrol for calling their oil a full synthetic. Which according to Mobil it wasnt a full synthetic like M1 since its not made from a Group IV base stock.
They lost the case, so they decided to start using the cheaper base stock just like Castrol,pennzoil etc. Why make a real synthetic that costs you more money to make then the competition who is charging the same price for their fake synthetic?
German Castrol Syntec 0w-30, Amsoil, redline are some of the few remaining TRUE synthetics( Group IV). The other Castrol syntecs, penzzoil platinum and now Mobile 1 are not TRUE synthetics. They are hydrolocked Group III oils.
just a little fyi
contribute anything else you heard/read/know
from the OP, 'derek173'
Mobile1 is no longer a true synthetic
Mobil sued Castrol for calling their oil a full synthetic. Which according to Mobil it wasnt a full synthetic like M1 since its not made from a Group IV base stock.
They lost the case, so they decided to start using the cheaper base stock just like Castrol,pennzoil etc. Why make a real synthetic that costs you more money to make then the competition who is charging the same price for their fake synthetic?
German Castrol Syntec 0w-30, Amsoil, redline are some of the few remaining TRUE synthetics( Group IV). The other Castrol syntecs, penzzoil platinum and now Mobile 1 are not TRUE synthetics. They are hydrolocked Group III oils.
just a little fyi
contribute anything else you heard/read/know
06-12-2007, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 9KADDCT,Jun 12 2007, 02:40 PM
They are hydrolocked Group III oils.
06-12-2007, 12:00 PM
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1) This information is ancient, the lawsuit was fought and lost a long time ago.
2) It's Mobil, not Mobile
3) To my knowledge all store bought synthetics here in the US contain primarily groupIII base stocks. These are the base stocks that are criticized the most for being "non synthetic".
4) If you don't know why a groupIII based oil is different from GroupIV then you shouldn't have post this, many responses will be more technical than you can understand.
Information on the internet indicates that Amsoil, Redline, and other "botique" oils remain "true synthetics" in that they continue to use Group IV/V base stocks in many of their high end motor oils.
There are two sides to the "fully synthetic" argument, one side says that the GroupIV/V base stocks are the only way to go and anything with a lesser base will not have equivalent performance and thus should not be considered a full synthetic. This is primarily true when it comes to extremely cold weather performance where GroupIV/V base stocks generally have superior pour points and cold flow performance.
The other side of the argument says that any oil can be called fully synthetic so long as it continues to stay in a performance range equivalent to previous oils that have been called fully synthetic but contained GroupIV/V base stocks. So basically, groupIII oil is "close enough" and therefore continues to meet many of the fully synthetic requirements in the eyes of the oil manufacturers.
In certain cases, you HAVE TO USE a group IV/V base stock in order to achieve certain weights in oil (0w40, 0w30, 5w50, etc etc.) These wide viscosity swings generally require a more robust base stock and as a result you'll see most oils in this range continue to have a mix of Group IV/V or be entirely based on Group IV/V oils. 0w oils are commonly regarded as having high quality base stocks although, as with anything else, YMMV.
Now, for my 2 cents, anything to follow is JUST MY OPINION so take it for what it's worth:
I don't have a problem with GroupIII oils whatsoever. I tend to lean towards side of the camp that thinks that, so long as the oil performs well, it doesn't matter what base stock it's made out of. It could be yellow corn oil for all I care, if it protects my engine well and can be had at a decent price then I'm happy with it. So basically, it boils down to "what is your definition of performance?". Are you willing to settle for "good enough, I'll go buy M1 and be done with it" or are you one of the people that says "nothing but the absolute best for my car, I will not rest until I own the best that there is, therefore I'm going to buy brand X". I'll just laugh at you and say that you can't prove that one oil is considerably better than any other.
My definition of performance is a lubricant that has better protection than the base oil recommended in my owners manual, can be easily found almost anywhere, and isn't cost prohibitive. Based on my definition of performance Pennzoil Platinum is the best choice for me. I'm sure everyone else will have different criteria or will feel that their driving environment requires something different. That's the beauty of being able to choose.
Consider this though, Pennzoil Platinum is made from Shell's awesome XHVI base stock. While this is a groupIII base stock it is widely regarded on BITOG as one of THE BEST groupIII base stocks currently in production. Combine this with Platinum's bargain pricing and "good enough" oil is suddenly a pretty attractive option. Because Platinum is readily available and cheap, I can afford to change my oil a little more often. Sure, it's not a super high end Group V oil that costs $9 a quart, but it doesn't cost me $60 to change my oil either. Hell, I can change my oil twice with Pennzoil Platinum and still not be out $60. And with the price of gas over $3 a gallon, that extra $20-$30 that I save on an oil change goes right back in my gas tank.
2) It's Mobil, not Mobile
3) To my knowledge all store bought synthetics here in the US contain primarily groupIII base stocks. These are the base stocks that are criticized the most for being "non synthetic".
4) If you don't know why a groupIII based oil is different from GroupIV then you shouldn't have post this, many responses will be more technical than you can understand.
Information on the internet indicates that Amsoil, Redline, and other "botique" oils remain "true synthetics" in that they continue to use Group IV/V base stocks in many of their high end motor oils.
There are two sides to the "fully synthetic" argument, one side says that the GroupIV/V base stocks are the only way to go and anything with a lesser base will not have equivalent performance and thus should not be considered a full synthetic. This is primarily true when it comes to extremely cold weather performance where GroupIV/V base stocks generally have superior pour points and cold flow performance.
The other side of the argument says that any oil can be called fully synthetic so long as it continues to stay in a performance range equivalent to previous oils that have been called fully synthetic but contained GroupIV/V base stocks. So basically, groupIII oil is "close enough" and therefore continues to meet many of the fully synthetic requirements in the eyes of the oil manufacturers.
In certain cases, you HAVE TO USE a group IV/V base stock in order to achieve certain weights in oil (0w40, 0w30, 5w50, etc etc.) These wide viscosity swings generally require a more robust base stock and as a result you'll see most oils in this range continue to have a mix of Group IV/V or be entirely based on Group IV/V oils. 0w oils are commonly regarded as having high quality base stocks although, as with anything else, YMMV.
Now, for my 2 cents, anything to follow is JUST MY OPINION so take it for what it's worth:
I don't have a problem with GroupIII oils whatsoever. I tend to lean towards side of the camp that thinks that, so long as the oil performs well, it doesn't matter what base stock it's made out of. It could be yellow corn oil for all I care, if it protects my engine well and can be had at a decent price then I'm happy with it. So basically, it boils down to "what is your definition of performance?". Are you willing to settle for "good enough, I'll go buy M1 and be done with it" or are you one of the people that says "nothing but the absolute best for my car, I will not rest until I own the best that there is, therefore I'm going to buy brand X". I'll just laugh at you and say that you can't prove that one oil is considerably better than any other.
My definition of performance is a lubricant that has better protection than the base oil recommended in my owners manual, can be easily found almost anywhere, and isn't cost prohibitive. Based on my definition of performance Pennzoil Platinum is the best choice for me. I'm sure everyone else will have different criteria or will feel that their driving environment requires something different. That's the beauty of being able to choose.Consider this though, Pennzoil Platinum is made from Shell's awesome XHVI base stock. While this is a groupIII base stock it is widely regarded on BITOG as one of THE BEST groupIII base stocks currently in production. Combine this with Platinum's bargain pricing and "good enough" oil is suddenly a pretty attractive option. Because Platinum is readily available and cheap, I can afford to change my oil a little more often. Sure, it's not a super high end Group V oil that costs $9 a quart, but it doesn't cost me $60 to change my oil either. Hell, I can change my oil twice with Pennzoil Platinum and still not be out $60. And with the price of gas over $3 a gallon, that extra $20-$30 that I save on an oil change goes right back in my gas tank.
06-12-2007, 01:08 PM
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This horse has been beat to death over on BITOG. The reason folks were so 'up in arms' was that Mobil was charging a premium price for their Mobil1 and EP lines, whereas Pennzoil Platinum was manufactured from the same Group III basestocks, but could be had for 1/2 the price.
I've had a UOA done on my S2 with Mobil1 EP 10w30, and it came back with low wear numbers. In my case, Mobil oil works good enough, so I don't mind continuing it's use.
One thing to remember, is that all the time worrying about oil basestocks, and money spent for the highest of high quality oils kicks on the irony/Murphy's Law factor. My S2000 is a daily driver, so chances of a wacko hitting it and tearing is much more likely than a inferior oil (but adequately filled) destorying my engine.
I've had a UOA done on my S2 with Mobil1 EP 10w30, and it came back with low wear numbers. In my case, Mobil oil works good enough, so I don't mind continuing it's use.
One thing to remember, is that all the time worrying about oil basestocks, and money spent for the highest of high quality oils kicks on the irony/Murphy's Law factor. My S2000 is a daily driver, so chances of a wacko hitting it and tearing is much more likely than a inferior oil (but adequately filled) destorying my engine.
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