Sway Bar Comparisons
11-21-2001, 09:09 AM
#21
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11-21-2001, 03:56 PM
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Less sway=more tire in contact with pavement. In a car with as stiff a rear sway bar as the S2000, less bar in the rear may help, but overdoing the effect by removing the rear bar will hurt because the car will sway more and the front end will understeer more along with reduced traction in the rear.
11-21-2001, 10:28 PM
#23
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cdelena,
Thanks for posting the article. It really made the concept more clear.
By increasing the thickness of the front sway bar and making the front of the car stiffer and less prone to deflection, the rate of lateral loads are transferred at a higher rate in the front. This causes an increase in the distribution of lateral load transfer towards the front tires causing understeer.
Interesting.
Does anyone know the size of the comptech sway bar?
Anyone tried Tanabe, Spoon, or Import Development sways?
EJ
Thanks for posting the article. It really made the concept more clear.
By increasing the thickness of the front sway bar and making the front of the car stiffer and less prone to deflection, the rate of lateral loads are transferred at a higher rate in the front. This causes an increase in the distribution of lateral load transfer towards the front tires causing understeer.
Interesting.
Does anyone know the size of the comptech sway bar?
Anyone tried Tanabe, Spoon, or Import Development sways?
EJ
11-22-2001, 10:11 PM
#25
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There is no magic answer to this question. Yes a beefier front bar (like the Mugen 31.8mm bar I have) will make a significant difference in handling. But before you start monkeying with your suspension (like I did) you first need to understand what you are trying to accomplish. Adding a stiffer front sway bar is only part of the equation.
The S2000 suspension as delivered is excellent. It's not really about making it better but rather tweaking it to be better for a certain application. As a rule, adjustable components will serve you best. Think about your suspension as a square box. somewhere in that box is where your suspension is tuned. Each side of the box is a different application such as autocross, track, street, commute. The more you move toward any one side means giving up something on the other side. So stiffer struts will compromise ride comfort but improve autox and so forth. Adding a front sway bar will increase understeer at the expense of oversteer.
On an autocross course (and comparing autox to other driving is just plain wrong) you want that understeer to keep the backend in check. You also want to go to wider, competition tires (the bigger the better). A .75 mile autox course has possibly over a dozen corners taken at relatively low speed. A track on the other hand may have only 2, 3 or 4 lower speed corners, the rest is balls out straights and sweepers for a couple of miles. A car well tuned for autox will run poorly at the track. On the street it doesn't matter too much but a little understeer would make the car more forgiving at the limit -- which we don't do on the street right
I do recommend the sway bar, and I think the differences between them will come down to adjustable vs. static and price, for a bit better safety and an overall better feel under most conditions. But I suggest you think seriously about when you are trying to accomplish and make a definitive plan. This will save you lots of money and ensure you get what you pay for. Retuning your suspension can cost upward of $5000 by the time you figure coilovers, swaybars, strut braces, tires and the like. Dropping $300 on something only to find out it makes little or no difference, or worse, is a drag.
My $0.02
The S2000 suspension as delivered is excellent. It's not really about making it better but rather tweaking it to be better for a certain application. As a rule, adjustable components will serve you best. Think about your suspension as a square box. somewhere in that box is where your suspension is tuned. Each side of the box is a different application such as autocross, track, street, commute. The more you move toward any one side means giving up something on the other side. So stiffer struts will compromise ride comfort but improve autox and so forth. Adding a front sway bar will increase understeer at the expense of oversteer.
On an autocross course (and comparing autox to other driving is just plain wrong) you want that understeer to keep the backend in check. You also want to go to wider, competition tires (the bigger the better). A .75 mile autox course has possibly over a dozen corners taken at relatively low speed. A track on the other hand may have only 2, 3 or 4 lower speed corners, the rest is balls out straights and sweepers for a couple of miles. A car well tuned for autox will run poorly at the track. On the street it doesn't matter too much but a little understeer would make the car more forgiving at the limit -- which we don't do on the street right
I do recommend the sway bar, and I think the differences between them will come down to adjustable vs. static and price, for a bit better safety and an overall better feel under most conditions. But I suggest you think seriously about when you are trying to accomplish and make a definitive plan. This will save you lots of money and ensure you get what you pay for. Retuning your suspension can cost upward of $5000 by the time you figure coilovers, swaybars, strut braces, tires and the like. Dropping $300 on something only to find out it makes little or no difference, or worse, is a drag.
My $0.02
11-23-2001, 10:19 AM
#26
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Originally posted by Triple-H
and who has the gendron front bar?
where would one buy a gendron if they wanted one?
and who has the gendron front bar?
where would one buy a gendron if they wanted one?
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=19474
It is a handbuilt, very racy piece - Heim jointed drop links, etc. It is made from basically the same parts Winston Cup guys build their bars from. Bill Gendron made it with the autocrosser in mind, but I think it works very well on the street, and is adjustable for your specific tastes/needs.
It is NOT blade adjustable, but instead has an adjustable lever arm length. There are six adjustment holes along the length of the arms. A few pictures here:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=33463
Unfortunately, it has a few design issues, which will result in clicks, clacks and clunks over bumps on the street. This can be remedied, but I had to do a bit of simple steel machining on a lathe to do it (fabricating steel spacers). That said, I'm running mine with a solid center torsion bar, and autocrossing stresses may cause things to loosen up faster than street driving.
11-26-2001, 05:17 PM
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cthree,
well said. I agree with you completely. I would like to get a little more safety from the car at the expense of some powerdrifting fun. I think getting a larger front sway bar will accomplish this task without breaking the bank.
DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE SKID PAD OR SLALOM NUMBERS BEFORE AND AFTER SWAYS???
I know it's a stretch. No one usually does these tests on their own but it doesn't hurt to ask
EJ
well said. I agree with you completely. I would like to get a little more safety from the car at the expense of some powerdrifting fun. I think getting a larger front sway bar will accomplish this task without breaking the bank.
DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE SKID PAD OR SLALOM NUMBERS BEFORE AND AFTER SWAYS???
I know it's a stretch. No one usually does these tests on their own but it doesn't hurt to ask
EJ
11-26-2001, 07:50 PM
#28
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EJ, will you be running race tires?
I run the stock S02's in Auto-X and they seem like the best compromise to me. Sure I get bit by some oversteer but more than half the time I'm still griping about understeer. So that is my balance. I'm not swapping bars until (unless) I switch to R-compound tires.
I run the stock S02's in Auto-X and they seem like the best compromise to me. Sure I get bit by some oversteer but more than half the time I'm still griping about understeer. So that is my balance. I'm not swapping bars until (unless) I switch to R-compound tires.
11-27-2001, 06:16 PM
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penforhire,
I'm running Falkens on 18inch rims. 225/245, front/rear
I can feel them twitching on a hot corner. It just doesn't give me the confidence that I'd like to have in the rear.
I'm a little worried since I hear of so many accidents of S2000s spinning out and crashing. I'm willing to sacrifice a little fun for a little more safety. I also want to make sure I'm not going to mess up the car's performance completely. I'm just trying to gather some data here so I can make an informed decision.
EJ
I'm running Falkens on 18inch rims. 225/245, front/rear
I can feel them twitching on a hot corner. It just doesn't give me the confidence that I'd like to have in the rear.
I'm a little worried since I hear of so many accidents of S2000s spinning out and crashing. I'm willing to sacrifice a little fun for a little more safety. I also want to make sure I'm not going to mess up the car's performance completely. I'm just trying to gather some data here so I can make an informed decision.
EJ