Calgarian

Very interesting comment about the ECU learning to cope with changing temps. I'll have to watch for this. This morning the 2002 TL I was driving did not want to stay fired. Eventually it fired up but I could smell the excess fuel from a overly rich mixture.
By the way what this about boring trucks!

xviper

They are to me. To each, his own.

NFRs2000NYC

This kind of strengthens my theory. You fuel pump is sending fuel, but since the battery is anemic, there is no spark (or little) and youll smell the unburnt fuel. Based on what Ive encountered, in my vehicle and many others, I still stick to my theory of anemic battery.

Xviper....I am not saying you are wrong, but if you had a cold start battery (optima yellow, duralast gold, basically anything with 500CCA at 0F) youll never have this problem. If it was really the ECU, then it should stutter no matter what battery.

jguerdat

The spark will be much more constant than the cranking speed due to the electgronic ignition. I would have agreed with you for an old points-based car but not a modern one.

BTW, a very old trick is to turn the headlights on for 30-60 seconds before even attempting to crank the engine. The chemical reaction in the battery will warm it some, enabling more output available for starting. Obviously, 1) turn the headlights off before cranking and 2) a very weak battery will just get sucked dry before cranking...

xviper

I take no offense at your view on things. What you observe on your car is no doubt true. Your conditions may be unique to your area and to you and what you see is a correct observation.
As an important note: When my car was brand new, winter came within a couple weeks. The battery was brand new and yet, this initial stall characteristic was present. Each season for the next 2 years, it did the same. Each time, it did it for about 4 to 5 episodes. After that, even though the temps never changed, the car "fixed" itself. On the 4th season of impending winter (and by now, the battery was 3 years old), it didn't do it at all. This year (4 year old battery and 5th winter), it never did it either. A few days ago, I posted that after parking all night at -25*C, the car cranked quite slowly but once it caught, it fired right up. The next morning, it was -30*C, it barely cranked over and after about 3 tries, it also fired up and ran just fine. We can assume that the battery condition at these cold temps is very poor and it affects cranking, however, once it decides to fire (even with limited voltage at this time), it will start and run just fine. This is also making the assumption that the last 2 winters, my ECU has somehow "learned" to deal with the a/f, idle compensation, throttle position on a cold start, etc.
Not all cars have these "brain farts" at the time of change of season. Some will do it for other reasons that take the ECU a bit of learning to overcome - humidity, barametric pressure, ambient temps. I don't have a precise technical explanation for this, so for now, it's just a bit of a mystery.

PilotKD

[QUOTE=xviper,Jan 14 2005, 12:12 AM] I've posted about this "characteristic" ad nauseum, therefore, I won't do it again.

alexf20c

I started mine this morning without a hitch.

74

xviper

[QUOTE=alexf20c,Jan 14 2005, 12:41 PM] I started mine this morning without a hitch.

74

alexf20c

Well ya, I know Dave. I read the entire thread.

:slaps own wrist:

PilotKD

Update. I went out and bought a new battery today. I wound up getting an Optima Yellowtop at Sears. I went back and forth trying to decide whether or not to get the Optima or get the Diehard, but I finally went with the Optima. Anywho, I just went out to the store after not driving the car since about 4pm this afternoon. It's 25 degrees F here right now and the car had sat long enough to be as cold as it could probably be before I went to the store. When I pushed the start button, the starter cranked over quite a bit faster than it usually does and it started right up without a hitch. Now I'm not going to get my hopes up, but I want to say that it's fixed. We shall see tomorrow morning. That will be the test, but there was definitely a difference in starter speed with the new battery. Also, my idle seems to be a bit more stable instead of dipping and wondering around.