Starting Issue When Hot
05-23-2016, 04:27 PM
#21
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The larger CCA battery was installed and that alone did not do the trick. We got to thinking mostly about being able to use a booster pack to start the car when hot. After tracing some wires he sent me this text:
"The starter and the electronic steering are on the same circuit they both run through a sub fuse box and the ground for the steering is up front probably what you seen smoke from. I'm wiring new power feeds to those components. There is a control unit for the steering next to the battery that is always hot after a drive. I think the steering rack is causing the drawl on a hot start. If I disconnect the power wire to the rack on a hot start it fires up. There was no direct line to the battery just the sub fuse box."
The tuner has also come back to look at the warm start tables and do some more fine tuning as well.
So I picked the car up this past weekend. I drove it pretty hard on the way home as well. A CTS-V wanted to have some fun so I showed him what's up on the highway. Anyway, I got home and wanted to see how well it would start for myself when hot. I shut the car off, waited a minute, turned the key back on, and waited about 5-10 seconds before attempting to press the start button. After all that I finally pressed the button and it took a good amount of cranks before finally starting (like in a video I posted earlier). After that I shut the car off again and proceeded to start the car again to see if I got the same result. This time the car started after much less cranking, but still took a few more cranks than a cold start.
Took the car to work today and did the restart test when hot, and got the same result as on Saturday. Took a few more cranks than a cold start, but it started.
Now am I convinced that the issue is resolved fully? No. I still have a nervous feeling if I am going to take the car on short trips and have to start the car not long after shutting it off. Something still doesn't seem right to me.
I'm also still very confused as to why the radiator fans are coming on when I do a hot start? Like the car can be idling in my garage when I get home from work and the fans are not running. I'll shut the car off and let it sit for a minute. When I turn the key to the ON position to let the fuel pump prime etc, the fans will then be running. So I feel with the fans running it is taking away power from trying to start the car and that could possibly be causing the long or extra cranking scenario.
Any thoughts on the radiator fans being on when trying to start the car when hot?
"The starter and the electronic steering are on the same circuit they both run through a sub fuse box and the ground for the steering is up front probably what you seen smoke from. I'm wiring new power feeds to those components. There is a control unit for the steering next to the battery that is always hot after a drive. I think the steering rack is causing the drawl on a hot start. If I disconnect the power wire to the rack on a hot start it fires up. There was no direct line to the battery just the sub fuse box."
The tuner has also come back to look at the warm start tables and do some more fine tuning as well.
So I picked the car up this past weekend. I drove it pretty hard on the way home as well. A CTS-V wanted to have some fun so I showed him what's up on the highway. Anyway, I got home and wanted to see how well it would start for myself when hot. I shut the car off, waited a minute, turned the key back on, and waited about 5-10 seconds before attempting to press the start button. After all that I finally pressed the button and it took a good amount of cranks before finally starting (like in a video I posted earlier). After that I shut the car off again and proceeded to start the car again to see if I got the same result. This time the car started after much less cranking, but still took a few more cranks than a cold start.
Took the car to work today and did the restart test when hot, and got the same result as on Saturday. Took a few more cranks than a cold start, but it started.
Now am I convinced that the issue is resolved fully? No. I still have a nervous feeling if I am going to take the car on short trips and have to start the car not long after shutting it off. Something still doesn't seem right to me.
I'm also still very confused as to why the radiator fans are coming on when I do a hot start? Like the car can be idling in my garage when I get home from work and the fans are not running. I'll shut the car off and let it sit for a minute. When I turn the key to the ON position to let the fuel pump prime etc, the fans will then be running. So I feel with the fans running it is taking away power from trying to start the car and that could possibly be causing the long or extra cranking scenario.
Any thoughts on the radiator fans being on when trying to start the car when hot?
05-23-2016, 06:30 PM
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What I took from the shop owner's text is that as he was tracing wires from the battery to the AEM, since when using a booster pack he could can get the car to start so easily when hot. So to me that meant there is too much resistance in a line somewhere in the path from the battery to the AEM. So as he was tracing wires from the battery to the AEM, he noticed that nothing runs directly from the battery to the AEM. All wires lead him to that very small fuse box on the driver side fender that contains the electronic steering and starter components. Then with disconnecting the power wire to the rack the car fired up when hot. So I guess in his mind replacing the power and ground wires to that fuse box would solve the issue.
From what he pointed out to me on the rack, that was not even close to where I saw some light white smoke coming from that day the car grounded out. The smoke was coming from the very front of the car from under the black plastic radiator shroud between the bumper and hood release. So to me I thought some wiring or something up front there may have been burnt up. He said he didn't see anything that looked burnt or scorched when looking in that area though.
He was driving the car around after changing all that wiring and the car was always starting when hot after that so he believed the car was now fixed. When I picked it up, it started just fine, but that was a cold start and it always starts fine when cold. I drove it pretty hard on the way home and did my own restart testing and it took about 8-10 seconds of cranking before turning over. Then my second test a minute later the car turned over after much less cranking, maybe holding the start button for about 4 seconds or so.
Personally I feel like there is still an underlying issue, like you stated. I think changing those wires out that he did, he was on the right path since the car does start now when hot and I have yet to not have it start, but cranking when hot is abnormally long IMO.
Plus the fact that on any hot start the cooling fans are always running. I honestly can't remember if the cooling fans were always running on a hot start before I ever had that ground out issue. But if they weren't and because I saw light white smoke coming from that area up through the shroud, I feel like there still may be an issue as to why the fans are coming on during hot starting and possibly causing too much of a draw causing all the extra cranking to start the car when hot.
I guess removing power to the fans before starting the car when hot would be a good test to see if the number of cranks it takes to the start the car is reduced?
From what he pointed out to me on the rack, that was not even close to where I saw some light white smoke coming from that day the car grounded out. The smoke was coming from the very front of the car from under the black plastic radiator shroud between the bumper and hood release. So to me I thought some wiring or something up front there may have been burnt up. He said he didn't see anything that looked burnt or scorched when looking in that area though.
He was driving the car around after changing all that wiring and the car was always starting when hot after that so he believed the car was now fixed. When I picked it up, it started just fine, but that was a cold start and it always starts fine when cold. I drove it pretty hard on the way home and did my own restart testing and it took about 8-10 seconds of cranking before turning over. Then my second test a minute later the car turned over after much less cranking, maybe holding the start button for about 4 seconds or so.
Personally I feel like there is still an underlying issue, like you stated. I think changing those wires out that he did, he was on the right path since the car does start now when hot and I have yet to not have it start, but cranking when hot is abnormally long IMO.
Plus the fact that on any hot start the cooling fans are always running. I honestly can't remember if the cooling fans were always running on a hot start before I ever had that ground out issue. But if they weren't and because I saw light white smoke coming from that area up through the shroud, I feel like there still may be an issue as to why the fans are coming on during hot starting and possibly causing too much of a draw causing all the extra cranking to start the car when hot.
I guess removing power to the fans before starting the car when hot would be a good test to see if the number of cranks it takes to the start the car is reduced?
05-23-2016, 06:59 PM
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From what I am finding out, apparently the AEM the fans will activate even if the car is just keyed on with the motor not running and coolant temp is above whats set under rad fan. Maybe the tuner has them set to come on sooner or maybe he didn't mess with that table at all. In any event, my question still stands, would pulling the fuse or relay for the fans be a good test to see if cranking is improved when hot?
05-24-2016, 04:41 PM
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So the woes continue. Took the car to work today, drove it home and stopped to get gas. After filling up, it was a no start situation again. When trying to start it, it would just crank and crank and crank. I gave it several attempts before giving it a break for about 5-10 minutes. On the last attempt after about 3-4 cranks, I hit the gas pedal and I'm not sure if that really helped or if the car was going to turn over that time anyway, but I got it started. I text the owner of the shop to let him know and he said he's gone over everything possible and changed everything possible and that the only thing left that we didn't do is send the ECU back to AEM.
So I'm really at a loss at this point and I think an appointment with Billman is going to be in order.
So I'm really at a loss at this point and I think an appointment with Billman is going to be in order.
05-24-2016, 05:52 PM
#26
So the woes continue. Took the car to work today, drove it home and stopped to get gas. After filling up, it was a no start situation again. When trying to start it, it would just crank and crank and crank. I gave it several attempts before giving it a break for about 5-10 minutes. On the last attempt after about 3-4 cranks, I hit the gas pedal and I'm not sure if that really helped or if the car was going to turn over that time anyway, but I got it started. I text the owner of the shop to let him know and he said he's gone over everything possible and changed everything possible and that the only thing left that we didn't do is send the ECU back to AEM.
So I'm really at a loss at this point and I think an appointment with Billman is going to be in order.
So I'm really at a loss at this point and I think an appointment with Billman is going to be in order.
05-24-2016, 06:08 PM
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You are correct about a previous fuel related issue. A while back I had an issue with the Grams pump. It was getting too hot and causing a fuel cut when I would floor it. It would also keep blowing the fuel pump fuse in the kick panel when I would try and start the car. I had the pump changed out to a Fullblown 340 and had the SOS wiring kit installed along with it. Funny you said that because tonight I asked the shop oner if this could possibly be a fuel related issue again or something to do with the pump when the car is hot. He stated that he doesn't think it's a fuel related issue because fuel pressure was good to the rail, even when the car wouldn't start for him when hot, fuel pressure was still good.
07-12-2016, 06:08 PM
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Been a while since I've updated this, but figured I should since I hate coming across so many unanswered threads. So I had someone else look at it. A fuel pressure gauge was installed onto the rail to be able to monitor it more easily. Fuel pressure is consistent and not dropping at all. A new PGMFI main relay was also installed just in case although we really didn't think that it was the issue. All main grounds were upgraded on the car and an extra ground was also added. This seemed to help hot cranking some, but was not the end all be all answer.
Now I do have a tiny tiny system in the car. A small subwoofer that fits inside of the spare tire and a small amp that can fit in the palm of your hand. Now when the previous shop had the car, a while ago they installed the SOS wiring kit for the fuel pump. Well the guy that had my car this time around discovered that the previous shop connected the power for the fuel pump to the wiring of the sound system. He redid the wiring and grounded each better and I haven't had a no hot start issue since. Cranking when hot is still more labored compared to when it's cold, but at least the car has started every single time when I shut the car off when hot and then restart it. I'm still trying to look into it further to see if I can get hot start cranking to improve, but at least the car is starting when hot without having to wait a while for it to cool down. If I come across anything else that helps hot start cranking, I'll be sure to post my findings.
Now I do have a tiny tiny system in the car. A small subwoofer that fits inside of the spare tire and a small amp that can fit in the palm of your hand. Now when the previous shop had the car, a while ago they installed the SOS wiring kit for the fuel pump. Well the guy that had my car this time around discovered that the previous shop connected the power for the fuel pump to the wiring of the sound system. He redid the wiring and grounded each better and I haven't had a no hot start issue since. Cranking when hot is still more labored compared to when it's cold, but at least the car has started every single time when I shut the car off when hot and then restart it. I'm still trying to look into it further to see if I can get hot start cranking to improve, but at least the car is starting when hot without having to wait a while for it to cool down. If I come across anything else that helps hot start cranking, I'll be sure to post my findings.
07-13-2016, 05:07 AM
#29
Thanks for keeping everybody posted. It can be frustrating when referring to old threads of similar problems one may have and not finding any solutions or answers at all.
Best of luck with the problem.
Best of luck with the problem.
04-09-2018, 07:54 AM
#30
Ive been having similar issues also I'm on e85 tho. I thought it was the gas. I think it's all within the aem ECU with the engine temp startup .There's a lot of fine tuning that needs to go into it. After I run hot for awhile you would need to let the car sit for awhile to cool off before I can turn it on again.