SpoonFedS2K

I have been reading many post under the technical section and all those with the money to spend seem to be buying one or the other. And those without the money want one or the other. So which one is better is my question. I am getting a 2002 (on order) and have a substancial amount of money to mod. So which one is better? I know you technical guys or out there so tell me what you think! And keep on driving!

Pappy

Honestly, I think both manufacturers come from different perspectives. Spoon makes products for peak hp and racing goodies, while Mugen is more laid back and is for sound and mid range torque.

Here is an example: Spoon exhaust is a single outlet exhaust that makes a big gain in hp and sound. Their header also makes a big difference in PEAK hp.

Mugen makes their header so it is optimal for mid range torque. It doesn't really give a big jump in hp. Their exhaust is only lighter and offers NO hp gain, but does have a sweet sound.

I have Spoon products on my car and love it! Their high quality products made for true racing.

Drop Top

I think there were some members that waited a certain # of mi. before they started modding the S2K. Not quite sure though. Just a cautionin case it does wierd things.

gregstevens

In fact, no disrespect Pappy, but you have it backwards. Mugen supports a vital and successful F-1 racing program. They have been involved in racing since the early 70's when the company was founded by Hirotoshi Honda...Soichiro Honda's son. They have a long racing history and are intimately close with Honda Motor Company. Spoon has no such relationship with Honda, nor do they have as successful a racing program.

They develop pieces for Honda cars that are focused on one thing...performance. If it doesn't improve it in some way, Mugen doesn't mess with it.

I have visited the Mugen facility and met with two of their engineers in charge of the S2000 program. It was an absolutely fascinating time and in fact, was the highlight of the Tokyo visit. Mugen employs 150 people, they have a tremendous R&D backing ALL of their products and we saw all of this firsthand. We also got into "Area 51", which is not possible for 99% of the people who visit the facility...this is where they machine engine components. There was an F-1 crankshaft on the bench that was only a few minutes old. The place is absolutely amazing. They also have motorcycle and cart racing divisions of the company.

We asked our hosts in Tokyo who they considered to be the best company for Honda aftermarket parts and it was an unequivocal response, Mugen. Mugen has the R&D, the staff, the resources, the technical expertise, and the relationship with Honda to make it the best. That I believe wholeheartedly.

The only comptetition that Mugen considers serious in HKS. Spoon is a very small company, I believe, under 10 people are employed by Spoon. You can decide for yourself based on that number alone which has greater resources. I have some Spoon parts on my car, namely the flywheel and clutch assembly, and they are simply reworked stock pieces, not from the ground-up designed and manufactured pieces. Spoon does have a visible S2000 race car, but I don't know how competitive it is...

At least for me, if Mugen makes it, that's what goes on my car. I have the Mugen ECU, header (which is a piece of art), seat (made to some astounding specs), rear AP-1 spoiler, and MF-10 wheels. All the pieces are made for performance, pure and simple. By next season, my car will be fully outfitted with Mugen equipment, including suspension, front end and whatever else they come up with before then.

Had you visited Mugen like we did in June, you would believe in it as much as we did before and even more so after. It's a no holds barred performance company...nothing more, nothing less.

Check out www.kingmotorsports.com and www.mugen-power.com for more details on the company...

HTH...

mingster

while i don't dispute greg's claim with mugen's ability to tune in the F1 or the Formula Nippon/3000 series, naturally as a spoon dealer i have to side with what i sell - and it's not the parts that i sell anymore, it's the philosophy. looking at the power curve spoon pumps out vs. what mugen does, i have to say mugen offers all around better driveability in traffic while spoon aims for, as pappy put it, peak power. having an extra 10-12HPs at the top is always more beneficial on a circuit/track than mid-range.

each to its own. i think mugen's parts are nicely made with fine edges like high quality parts should be made, but they lack the hardcore-ness some people look for in their CONSUMER lineup. spoon on the other hand, sells what they use on their race car.

i remember reading an issue of SCC where at the last page a gentleman talked about the Chevrolet Berretta (sp?). chevy wanted "people to see the Berretta on a sunday NASCAR race, and walk into the showroom and buy the car on Monday". ok, now, we ALL know the term "stock car" is a sham, and aside from the molded trimmings made to look like the Berretta, the NASCAR version has nothing in common with their consumer version. Spoon gives their consumer the ability to purchase the same parts used on their car that people (in Japan, lucky them) see on Sunday (or whatever day) and can purchase the next morning.

there ain't nothing wrong with Mugen, but they don't make that much money selling "consumer" parts. the money is in F1 and such, we all know that.

remember that my position is rather biased, as it is greg's. and unless you can put 2 cars with the same professional driver (i prefer schumi, but who can afford to ask him to do one of these comparo's?) on a closed track, this debate will go on forever, and i'd hate for this to go down in flames as a piss fight, so let's be nice.

on a side note: i'd like to see some of my fellow dealers stand up and speak out for the parts they sell. i'm intimate with the brands i sell, i use them personally, i test them all the time in different combinations and with other brands. the difference between myself and a lot of the shops out there is that i do the work in addition to the sale. this way when i open my big mouth (i am now second on this board ) about a part i sell, i know it's true - or as true as i can see it gets on the testing tools we're limited to (by finance).

and greg, don't be knockin' on Mr. Ichishima's ability to race Hondas nor his dedication to the Hondas for the past 30 years. just because they had a shitty season this year doesnt' mean they ain't a good team. hell, if you want to talk about it, Honda is NOWHERE near the top in F1, and BAR and Jordan can only watch as Ferrari, BMW, and Mercedes lap them on the track. some dude driving Ferrari, BMW, and Mercedes can say the same shit about Hondas "they ain't so successful, WTF are they doing in F1?"

meat

Let us not forget Honda's prior ventures into F1 - remember a guy named Senna?

Honda has also topped the CART series in the past.

Honda is a racing company that makes passenger cars. Period.

Honda will get back to the top of F1 if they dedicate full resources to one team, IMHO.

gregstevens

Rich, my post wasn't aimed at you or Spoon. It's just the facts as I see them, it wasn't an indictment of anything they do, don't do or whatever...the same goes for you, nothing I said was meant to be derogatory towards you whatsoever.

My opinion, and that's all it is, is based purely on just a few things...knowing a little bit about the companies and having visited and toured Mugen and met with their engineers. Sorry to say, but if you are comparing the resources that Mugen has with its robust R&D and testing facilities with a company a small fraction of the size, I just don't think you are comparing apples to apples.

Am I biased? We all have our biases...but I don't sell Mugen parts. I don't benefit from the sale of them and I pay for them just like anybody else would. King is a sponsor of ours and I support them, but I'm looking at this more objectively than that.

Again, just my opinion...and you're right, this debate could go on and on forever...I just wanted to get my 3 drachmas in.

mingster

that's exactly what i mean. does anyone of you know spoon's racing/winning history? THE PAST?! do you know what titles Spoon's ITR captured?!

i'm not baggin' on Honda, just trying to state the facts. just because honda's having a shitty season, even with a former world champion driving, doesn't mean they're "inferior" in any sense. what i was reading is "spoon is no good because they suck in racing", yeah, this season they haven't done well, it doesn't mean they're inferior.

Greg, we all know we all have our own 2 cents. i like this friendly chit chat once in a while, beats the excitement in off-topic forums anytime.

meat

I'm not downplaying Spoon's racing history - but I hope you aren't comparing Spoon's ventures in a ITR with winning the CART championship or the F1 title??

Let us also no forget that King Motorsports does quite alright with racing their ITR - wonder where they get some of their racing info.....

I said it from the time (even before) I bought my S2000 that the only parts that would go on my car were Mugen and Comptech. Comptech is a good company, but they haven't impressed me with any of their products enough to buy them. Mugen is the top of the food chain in my book (for Honda tuning) and that's what I buy. This is strictly my opinion, however. Each person has to draw their own conclusions - no matter how they do it. Greg toured the facilities and was "turned". I didn't need that - I just did my homework and came to my conclusions on my own.

Yes, this debate can go for hours - but it's nice to know that we are diverse and open to have these conversations.

SpoonFedS2K

Well fellows since my S2000 will be a daily driven car and I probably won't get to the track very often I would have to say I am leaning towards Mugen. Although Spoon does carry a very disputable reputation as a champion race team that pours hours into production of the race parts they sell to the common public. I guess it will have to come down to what I order when it is ordered? Thanks again and keep on driving!