spook

This.

bgoetz

No on the S you should actually let the clutch out and shift into the gear. The way you described you would be just as well skipping to 6th.

spets

The way Boofster said it, you'll at least have the syncros and gears being properly selected if you row them through the gates; you just won't have the engine power hooked up to it while you keep the clutch in.

jbird

It's bad for the clutch not so much the transmission, I don't know the technical reasons for this but my friend ****ed up an MX5 5 speeder's clutch by going 1st, redline, 2nd redline, and then missing third and going into 5th.

I try not to skip rediculous gears and definitely do it whilst I have momentum.

e.g 1st to 5k, 3rd to 4k and then 5th. So my car never struggles

Saki GT

Afaik, shifting into a gear is where you wear out a synchro - it doesn't matter what gear you shift into, if you skip, etc, because in the end, it comes down to rev matching. If you shift from 2 to 3 and do it wrong you'll put a lot of stress on the synchros, if you shift from 1 to 3 but rev match you won't. Its just easier to shift into sequential gears as the rpm differences are smaller so its easier to rev match.

The Honda article states that skip shifting is bad, but not why - the reason is rev matching and the fact that many times when you skip shift, you don't rev match well and thus put more stress on the drivetrain components, including the synchros. I have yet to hear of any S2000 that's suffered transmission failure due to skip shifting.

And skip shifting has no effect on the clutch. Your friend destroyed his clutch by not shifting correctly, it had nothing to do with skip shifting.

SUPERAnimal

The article does state why it's bad to skip gears. The only time when rev-matching will wear the synchros less is when you double clutch and do things perfectly. You can rev match all day long but if the clutch isn't engaged and the transmission isn't
in neutral you're doing no less wear. Sure, you can shift from 1 to 3 and wait and try to time things perfectly but you'll still put wear on the synchros. The article doesn't talk about rev matching wether double clutching or not because it doesn't need to. That service news was created for dealership technicians for a vehicle that has synchros.

Mor.gan

I'm a couple hundred miles from 90k and I skip ship ALL the time; no transmission problems at all.

Then again I also change my tranny fluid ever 5k miles.

buyos1717

In my honest opinion, i don't think it should do any harm. Now, someone mentioned about how it won't change the shafts or something but i find that hard to believe. I'm not saying they are wrong but i don't see how you can not use the proper shaft but engage a gear...

I could be wrong but when you skip a gear i think you are only doing just that, skipping a gear. I'm not sure if there is much else going on in the transmission...


The one thing that compelled me to post is the link to the Honda service bulleting or whatever. The article is not saying what the OP is doing is damaging. The OP is putting the proper load on each gear when pulling up a hill in second then switching gears to sixth when coasting down the hill. If you aren't putting extra load when doing that, i think you are in the clear. The article released by Honda is talking about putting extra load by starting in first then switching to sixth on flat ground because you don't want to shift through all the gears. In this situation you would be putting an extra load on the tranny to try and power up to the proper sixth gear speed. It's kind of like Honda putting out an article about not trying to start your car from a standstill in sixth gear. You are putting a load on the sixth gear that it isn't meant to handle. Hell, i think if the OP tried to cycle through all the gears when going down a hill would do more damage because you are again putting a sixth gear load on 2nd gear.

Hopefully all this makes sense. My reading comprehension sucks and i'm exhausted from having to study for finals.

SSM_S2k

over all it will not affect anything..i have yet heard any car that suffered from this...i have been in this scene for so long and im sure most of you have, it doesnt do anything harm at all..now imagine being on the strip, and you're at it im sure every single one of us here jams the shifter so hard that it feels like its gonna break in half and at the same time that same tranny still lasted for years after that one day abused, right? so if some are not sure if its good or bad, just dont do it at all if you feel uncomfortable. synchros are there to SYNCHRONIZE things right..most of them go out because of grinds due to bad clutches or misshifts! and our cars are not that fragile except for the pumpkin(what i dislike the most on this car). our motors and tranny will last for a very long time..i have 152k on mine and still drives the same just like when i first got it, just remember to do all the maintenance and they will last!!.

slipstream444

WRONG -
There's a LOT wrong in that post - but I'll focus on some of the bigger issues:
There have been several cars that have suffered the 5th and 6th gear "lockout" caused directly by skip-shifting. The damage is caused by excessive forces "mushrooming" the 5th and 6th gear synchros. There are skip-shifting techniques that can help avoid the damage.

Skip-shifting in general is not a good idea in a manual synchronized transmission, and just because your transmission hasn't suffered a failure to date certainly doesn't mean it won't. Good common sense should tell you as the transmission gets older and the synchros suffer more wear - the likelihood of a failure greatly increases.

Synchros in part are effectively small wet clutches. They use dynamic and frictional forces to speed up (in the case of a downshift) and slow down (in the case of an upshift) the input shaft (which includes all the rotational mass of the disc and input shaft) to synchronize its speed with the throughput speed of the gear being selected.
If you go from a redline shift in a low gear immediately to a high gear - say 2nd to 5th or 6th - you're doing damage. In the particular case of a low gear redline skip-shift (from 2nd to 5th or 6th for instance), the 5th or 6th gear synchros have to decelerate the input shaft (and disc) from 9000 RPM (AP1) down to about 4200 RPM in 5th, or about 3500 RPM for 6th. The forces are tremendous and well in excess of what the 5th or 6th gear synchros are designed to take.

Common sense: don't do something unless the benefits outweigh the costs.
What's the benefit of ship-shifting? Big time saver? NO; Saves wear and tear? Obviously NOT; More convenient? yes (in some situations) - but is the damage really worth it?
The cost - damaged transmission.

Here's an easy solution that has much of the 'convenience' of straight skip-shifting, but has none of the consequences - row through each successive gear without letting out the clutch.
What I mean by that is: using the example of redlining in 2nd and going to 5th or 6th (without clutching all the gears in-between) - simply leave the clutch pressed to the floor and row the shifter through all the gates up to your desired gear. Each of the successive gears you row through will use that gear's synchro to successively slow down the input shaft progressively so that by the time you get to 5th or 6th, the RPMs are at a normal/manageable RPM. The clutch is pressed in once (saving work) and you're not mushrooming your 5th and/or 6th gear synchro in the process.
The time cost to do this over a direct skip-shift is minimal and it also serves to develop good muscle memory in the process. That's a must if you're new to your S2000 or haven't driven it for months on end.

This and the post that I answered are examples of one of the biggest problems in any forum listed as TECHNICAL - your opinion is worthless here if you don't know what you're talking about - and there are several that posted here that DO NOT. This is NOT an OPINION forum - it is a FACT forum.
There's nothing wrong posting your thoughts in the Opinion forum or posting your thoughts here in the form of or in conjunction with a question - in an effort to learn.
You have to understand there are those who come to this forum for FACTUAL answers - expensive answers in many cases, and if you give them wrong information or guidance... and they screw up their car - you are negligent in giving them the bad advice.