Should I built it or stock it?
05-17-2003, 03:24 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the info guys........I think I will have my final decision next week. Are there any other company out there you guys recommand instead or Mike Simon or AEBS? I know both company are great but just want to have more options.
05-17-2003, 09:03 PM
#12
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Jackie, what broke and why? Stock shortblock will be fine if you limit your boost to 6psi. If it was my money, I would chose a sleeved block with 9.5 pistons and forged con rods. If you are thinking of running more than 7 - 8 psi of boost, you better do something with the differential. That will be your next week link.
05-17-2003, 09:54 PM
#13
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Mike Simon sells bottom ends. His are proven and they use high quality parts. There is no point to getting one if you plan on running 7psi, save your money. If you want to run 10, 12, 20, ect ect, get it. If you spend the extra money, it's usually for more boost. If you have the 4k for that other place, or 6k for Mike Simon (not exactly sure how much it is, PM cjb80), spend it, save future mishaps and get more POWER (A lot more power, like 400+whp more power). If it were me, I'd rebuild it for sure, no hesitation (provided money wasn't a huge issue).
05-17-2003, 10:46 PM
#14
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BENSON'S PERFORMANCE MACHINE
Dept. THP,
2909 S. Kilson Ave.
Santa Ana, CA 92707
(714) 241-1284
BCE RACING HEADS
(909) 944-8097
www.bceracing.com
ALANIZ CYLINDER HEAD TECHNOLOGIES
409 E. Gardena Blvd. Suite B.
Gardena CA. 90248 U.S.A.
Ph: 310-808-970
give these guys some calls, they should point you in the right direction, if you build the block, mine as well do some headwork. good luck
Dept. THP,
2909 S. Kilson Ave.
Santa Ana, CA 92707
(714) 241-1284
BCE RACING HEADS
(909) 944-8097
www.bceracing.com
ALANIZ CYLINDER HEAD TECHNOLOGIES
409 E. Gardena Blvd. Suite B.
Gardena CA. 90248 U.S.A.
Ph: 310-808-970
give these guys some calls, they should point you in the right direction, if you build the block, mine as well do some headwork. good luck
05-18-2003, 12:35 AM
#15
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SuzukaS2K,
Take my advice. Do NOT put another stock block in there.
Unless you don't plan on running turbo, do not run stock
f20c shortblock with turbo. It will eventually wear out
or have problems.
Built the shortblock you have now. If $3000-4000 is out
of your price range, I have many shops that I can point you
to, for around $2500 for the same price for a new shortblock
but you can run mad boost on them.
I have already contacted Golen Eagle Mfg. Their sleeves are
bullet proof and they have been around and they're
well known in the import scene. They've built block that runs
9s. Best of all, their sleeve, including the machine work,
is only $700-800. (For B-series, it's 750. I think it's 100
more for the F20C block)
Here's their info:
http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/
Golden Eagle Mfg
414 Borrego Court
San Dimas, CA
(909) 592-4311 (909) 599-4692
I'd also contacted RS Machines. I do not have their shop info
but I can get them, PM me. They have opened decked sleeves.
Same price, around 750$. The Golden Eagle Sleeves are
open deck with built-in block guard design.
After the sleeves done, the block is pretty much done.
Contact JE and get a set of pistons with rings. They go for
about $500. Get a set of Eagle rods ($350) or Crower
rods (around $500).......as you probably want to keep
the cost down, these rods are good enough, better than
stock. Ti rods does nothing but much much lighter than stock,
they're expensive as hell. After the sleeves/pistons/rods,
all you need is all bearings/studs/ and some machine work
on the crank, then you get yourself a complete bullet
proof shortblock that is design to run turbo.
$850 sleeves + $500 pistons + $500 rods + all bearings/studs +
misc stuff. You will keep the cost around $2000-2500.
Putting another OEM shortblock in will just cause you more
trouble down the road, unless you plan to take out that turbo.
Keep the head stock..... if you have the money to spare, go ahead
and do the headwork (port/polish/valves/springs/reatiners..etc.)
There's nothing wrong to run E-manage and stock ECU on a
built shortblock.
Just my opinion.... but whatever you do, don't put another
oem shortblock in.
Take my advice. Do NOT put another stock block in there.
Unless you don't plan on running turbo, do not run stock
f20c shortblock with turbo. It will eventually wear out
or have problems.
Built the shortblock you have now. If $3000-4000 is out
of your price range, I have many shops that I can point you
to, for around $2500 for the same price for a new shortblock
but you can run mad boost on them.
I have already contacted Golen Eagle Mfg. Their sleeves are
bullet proof and they have been around and they're
well known in the import scene. They've built block that runs
9s. Best of all, their sleeve, including the machine work,
is only $700-800. (For B-series, it's 750. I think it's 100
more for the F20C block)
Here's their info:
http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/
Golden Eagle Mfg
414 Borrego Court
San Dimas, CA
(909) 592-4311 (909) 599-4692
I'd also contacted RS Machines. I do not have their shop info
but I can get them, PM me. They have opened decked sleeves.
Same price, around 750$. The Golden Eagle Sleeves are
open deck with built-in block guard design.
After the sleeves done, the block is pretty much done.
Contact JE and get a set of pistons with rings. They go for
about $500. Get a set of Eagle rods ($350) or Crower
rods (around $500).......as you probably want to keep
the cost down, these rods are good enough, better than
stock. Ti rods does nothing but much much lighter than stock,
they're expensive as hell. After the sleeves/pistons/rods,
all you need is all bearings/studs/ and some machine work
on the crank, then you get yourself a complete bullet
proof shortblock that is design to run turbo.
$850 sleeves + $500 pistons + $500 rods + all bearings/studs +
misc stuff. You will keep the cost around $2000-2500.
Putting another OEM shortblock in will just cause you more
trouble down the road, unless you plan to take out that turbo.
Keep the head stock..... if you have the money to spare, go ahead
and do the headwork (port/polish/valves/springs/reatiners..etc.)
There's nothing wrong to run E-manage and stock ECU on a
built shortblock.
Just my opinion.... but whatever you do, don't put another
oem shortblock in.
05-18-2003, 12:44 AM
#16
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I guess I'm really just lurking in the topic, but let's say we buy the built motor from Mike Simon. Is it as easy as put it in, spend some money on upping the boost, and you're done? What else would we have to look into upgrading/reinforcing in order for our cars to be able to handle all this power and how much are we talking?
Dave
Dave
05-18-2003, 02:46 AM
#19
Thread Starter
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OneQuickS2K
[B]SuzukaS2K,
Take my advice. Do NOT put another stock block in there.
Unless you don't plan on running turbo, do not run stock
f20c shortblock with turbo. It will eventually wear out
or have problems.
Built the shortblock you have now. If $3000-4000 is out
of your price range, I have many shops that I can point you
to, for around $2500 for the same price for a new shortblock
but you can run mad boost on them.
I have already contacted Golen Eagle Mfg. Their sleeves are
bullet proof and they have been around and they're
well known in the import scene. They've built block that runs
9s. Best of all, their sleeve, including the machine work,
is only $700-800. (For B-series, it's 750. I think it's 100
more for the F20C block)
Here's their info:
http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/
Golden Eagle Mfg
414 Borrego Court
San Dimas, CA
(909) 592-4311 (909) 599-4692
I'd also contacted RS Machines. I do not have their shop info
but I can get them, PM me. They have opened decked sleeves.
Same price, around 750$. The Golden Eagle Sleeves are
open deck with built-in block guard design.
After the sleeves done, the block is pretty much done.
[B]SuzukaS2K,
Take my advice. Do NOT put another stock block in there.
Unless you don't plan on running turbo, do not run stock
f20c shortblock with turbo. It will eventually wear out
or have problems.
Built the shortblock you have now. If $3000-4000 is out
of your price range, I have many shops that I can point you
to, for around $2500 for the same price for a new shortblock
but you can run mad boost on them.
I have already contacted Golen Eagle Mfg. Their sleeves are
bullet proof and they have been around and they're
well known in the import scene. They've built block that runs
9s. Best of all, their sleeve, including the machine work,
is only $700-800. (For B-series, it's 750. I think it's 100
more for the F20C block)
Here's their info:
http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/
Golden Eagle Mfg
414 Borrego Court
San Dimas, CA
(909) 592-4311 (909) 599-4692
I'd also contacted RS Machines. I do not have their shop info
but I can get them, PM me. They have opened decked sleeves.
Same price, around 750$. The Golden Eagle Sleeves are
open deck with built-in block guard design.
After the sleeves done, the block is pretty much done.
05-18-2003, 06:09 AM
#20
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Jackie,
You are at the crossroads at this point. You need to make a decision. Are you willing to do what it takes to make your car a contender? Or are you just looking for part time? The F20C is a motor built on the edge of the envelope. You can't push it much more without making some serious upgrades. The rods and pistons that come stock with the car are forged. The engine redlines to 9000 rpm. The amount of stress applied on every aspect of the engine at those speeds is astronomical. Adding forced induction to the mix is really pushing it. If you plan on staying with forced induction then you can't cut corners. The difference between a Mike Simon motor and AEBS is that Mike gives you the complete product. AEBS is only going to do the bottom half of the motor. You send them pistons and rods then sleeve / oring the motor and assemble it with the pistons and rods. You'll still need to do the top of the motor at that point. If you were to go that route, you're looking at the following (estimates):
Pistons - $650
Rods - $600
AEBS - $2200
Like you said, you're at $3450 and that doesn't include the labor you're paying to have the motor disassembled and put back together again. There are a lot of incidentals that you'll need as well. Gaskets, fluids, hardware. I don't know what Mike is charging these days for a motor but whatever it is I'm sure you couldn't possibly do it by yourself for less money. Mike is meticulous in the way he works and the quality of his motors is top notch. Believe me, nobody knows like I do what a drain on your finances this project can be but once you're done you will have a monster car. If you don't want to go through all of this and would prefer to stick with a stock block... sell your turbo kit and go with all of the NA goodies or a supercharger kit. (Comptech...). Again, these are just my opinions, but they're based on experience.
-BS2KT
You are at the crossroads at this point. You need to make a decision. Are you willing to do what it takes to make your car a contender? Or are you just looking for part time? The F20C is a motor built on the edge of the envelope. You can't push it much more without making some serious upgrades. The rods and pistons that come stock with the car are forged. The engine redlines to 9000 rpm. The amount of stress applied on every aspect of the engine at those speeds is astronomical. Adding forced induction to the mix is really pushing it. If you plan on staying with forced induction then you can't cut corners. The difference between a Mike Simon motor and AEBS is that Mike gives you the complete product. AEBS is only going to do the bottom half of the motor. You send them pistons and rods then sleeve / oring the motor and assemble it with the pistons and rods. You'll still need to do the top of the motor at that point. If you were to go that route, you're looking at the following (estimates):
Pistons - $650
Rods - $600
AEBS - $2200
Like you said, you're at $3450 and that doesn't include the labor you're paying to have the motor disassembled and put back together again. There are a lot of incidentals that you'll need as well. Gaskets, fluids, hardware. I don't know what Mike is charging these days for a motor but whatever it is I'm sure you couldn't possibly do it by yourself for less money. Mike is meticulous in the way he works and the quality of his motors is top notch. Believe me, nobody knows like I do what a drain on your finances this project can be but once you're done you will have a monster car. If you don't want to go through all of this and would prefer to stick with a stock block... sell your turbo kit and go with all of the NA goodies or a supercharger kit. (Comptech...). Again, these are just my opinions, but they're based on experience.
-BS2KT