08S2000

Zakazak, when Billman said " first freeplay", it means the free play of the clutch pedal. When you push with pinky (very light pressure), you should only see the pedal movement. The cylinder rod will not be pushed into the cylinder. Hopefully this makes sense....

Couple days ago, I removed the first free play and shifting is so smooth I just want to go drive it even more now.

zakazak

Well, I think I even overdid that. When doing light pressure on my clutch pedal I can see the rod moving (so there is no "first freeplay"). But maybe I overdid this.. in any case.. even when overdoing, clutching should feel smoother ? I still have the 2nd gear grinding though (changed clutch & tranny fluit already.. 10k miles on the car)

s2000Junky

You guys are playing with fire, and clearly it bit Zakak in the ass. You should always have some free play registered at the pedal or your run high risk that your riding the clutch. As the clutch wears with mileage, this will only continue to compound.

08s2000, the only reason why it would be "smoother" is if the piston stroke in the master was too short and you weren't entirely disengaging the PP enough to shift smoothly, adjusting the master to reduce the pedal free play in effect lengthened the piston stroke for further PP engagement, that's fine but you now need to add the free play back in by raising the clutch switch/pedal height. Not doing so could result in another neglectful tragedy associated with this thread.

08S2000

You guys are playing with fire, and clearly it bit Zakak in the ass. You should always have some free play registered at the pedal or your run high risk that your riding the clutch. As the clutch wears with mileage, this will only continue to compound.

08s2000, the only reason why it would be "smoother" is if the piston stroke in the master was too short and you weren't entirely disengaging the PP enough to shift smoothly, adjusting the master to reduce the pedal free play in effect lengthened the piston stroke for further PP engagement, that's fine but you now need to add the free play back in by raising the clutch switch/pedal height. Not doing so could result in another neglectful tragedy associated with this thread.
[/quote]

Thanks S2000Junky for your point outs.

I removed most of the first free play. I still have maybe 1/32" left (barely moves with very light pressure) and I still do have the master cylinder free play (needs more pressure than the previous free play).

Because I have the barely moving first free play, I do not think that I need to add the free play back by adjusting the clutch switch or pedal height.

What do you think?

s2000Junky

You guys are playing with fire, and clearly it bit Zakak in the ass. You should always have some free play registered at the pedal or your run high risk that your riding the clutch. As the clutch wears with mileage, this will only continue to compound.

08s2000, the only reason why it would be "smoother" is if the piston stroke in the master was too short and you weren't entirely disengaging the PP enough to shift smoothly, adjusting the master to reduce the pedal free play in effect lengthened the piston stroke for further PP engagement, that's fine but you now need to add the free play back in by raising the clutch switch/pedal height. Not doing so could result in another neglectful tragedy associated with this thread.
[/quote]

Thanks S2000Junky for your point outs.

I removed most of the first free play. I still have maybe 1/32" left (barely moves with very light pressure) and I still do have the master cylinder free play (needs more pressure than the previous free play).

Because I have the barely moving first free play, I do not think that I need to add the free play back by adjusting the clutch switch or pedal height.

What do you think?
[/quote]

I'm always happy to chime in, I hate to see unnecessary major/minor issues result from lack of knowledge or experience.

I think I'd rather be safe then sorry when it comes to this one. If you feel comfortable/confident your completely unseated from the PP then that's all you need, but sounds like your right on the edge and over time as your disc wears, what ever free play you have now will diminish, I would check it regularly. I typically run 1/2-3/4" of pedal free play, enough to tap with my foot and feel it, but not so sloppy I'm losing effective pedal stroke. Total pedal height is the same level as the brake pedal, the way I like it.

08S2000

Thank you and I will check regularly. I am good at keeping my car in check.

I definitely agree with you and hate to see unnecessary major/minor issues from lack of knowledge/experience and that's why I keep reading and researching and hopefully extending my knowledge.

Billman250

Freeplay at the pedal, as far as adjustment is concerned, does not change with clutch wear.

Even if you pulled the clutch and trans out of the car taking it out of the equation, the pedal freeplay setting is always constant.

Freeplay is not the same as engagement height. Engagement height is determined by clutch components and wear, and one should never attempt to alter it by messing with the clutch rod setting.

This is why I say there is only one correct setting for the clutch rod and this will always apply.

08S2000

I thought so too on this since the engagement point respect the the clutch wear would be self-adjusted at the slave and the free play at the pedal is for the master cylinder.

Push down on the pedal -> moves master cylinder-> moves slave cylinder.

But I must say that after removing most of the first free play, shifting is much smoother.

s2000Junky

In my experience with severe clutch wear on past cars, as the disc wears, the engagement point becomes later/further up the pedal as you agree with, but eventually begin to take up the free play in the pedal becuase the master allows for it in some scenarios ( more then likely such as 08s2000's adjustment) and at that point if not re adjusted will of course end the clutch sooner then it would otherwise if you re adjusted the pedal height to add back in free play. Back in the days when I had no money and worked on cars out of necessity rather then pleasure, you figure out how to limp your cars around, making due with what you have as long as possible. Some cars don’t have a separate pedal height adjustment on their clutch, in that case there isnt much you can do.

I agree there is only one proper setting for your clutch - if you want your clutch pedal level with your brake pedal and have the proper amount of free play and master throw to disengage the PP fully. But as long as the PP is disengaging fully, there usually is a little room to play around with where in the pedal stroke the engagement point is. It will change with wear though, and running with basically no free play at the pedal like 082000 is wouldn’t be something I would do, especially on a higher torque FI set up such as myself.

Billman250

Yes as it wears, grab point will change.

The clutch rod setting however is unaffected nor does it need to be adjusted for wear.

Once its correct, its set for life, guaranteed.