Short Block replaced under warranty @ 76k miles
04-09-2003, 07:10 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: HouStook TX
Posts: 8,821
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been meaning to post this for a while, but I wanted to wait until I got my car back. I picked it up 2 weeks ago, so here's the LONG story.
The Noise
Well, I bought my car back in 8/2000 and have been using it as my daily driver until this fateful night. It was a Saturday morning(03/01/2003) around 12:30am and I was heading home with the top down and the radio volume pretty loud. I begin to notice a vibration on the steering wheel that I've never heard before. I lower the volume, raise the windows and I begin to hear a noise that sounds like sledgehammers banging in my engine bay. The vibration begins to get worse.
I push in the clutch, let off the gas and begin to coast to a gas station that's coming up. I just make it into the parking lot and shut the engine off. RudyW follows in behind me and parks next to me. He knows something is wrong too, because he could hear the noise while driving behind me.
We do the usual routine, pop the hood, check the oil (full), and try to figure out what's going on. I didn't want to try and restart it, risking any damage, but it got the best of me. I tried and it didn't even want to turn over. Probably a good thing.
Waiting for the tow truck
It was now 1:00am and we're sitting in a closed gas station. I went ahead and called my Honda Care Extended Warranty 24 hour Roadside Assistance number. I talk to the customer care rep, describe the situation, and request a tow truck. They locate the nearest dealer and the wait begins. About 20 minutes into the wait, RudyW asks if they were sending a flatbed. I know that we need a flatbed when being towed, but I just assumed that the Honda Care rep knew that too. I called back and sure enough, they had called out a regular tow truck. They cancelled the first tow truck and initiated a second tow truck request. Their ETA was 2 hours.
Tip: Even when calling HondaCare, request a flatbed tow truck.
About 2 hours later, the tow truck guy drives up and we exchange information. He begins to load up the car very carefully and secures it in place. It was very reminiscent of Wesmaster's 2 towings that I've witnessed. There's something about Red S2000's and tow trucks in Houston.
We lead the tow truck to the dealer and drop it off next to the service department. RudyW drops me off at my house around 5:00am and I get some sleep. I wake up around 10am and head to the dealership.
The Dealership
I walk in, give them my information and describe what I heard the night before. The service advisor mentions that nobody will take a look at my car until Monday. Not a problem.
They call me on Monday and say that they think the short block is damaged. They apparently got the car started and reproduced the problem that I had reported. The take the engine apart and notice the crank is damaged due to a main bearing failure. The #4 cylinder is also scoured due to the rod bearing damage caused by the wicked vibrations that worked its way up.
The Warranty Claim Process
This is where the fun begins. I have the 7 year/100,000 mile extended warranty and ask the Dealership Service Advisor "what happens next?". He told me that we have to wait for a Honda Care Adjuster to fly in, get the details, and make a judgment call on what the repairs will consist of. I'm beginning to feel that this review process could take a while.
Tip: Let the dealer know how you want the car to be repaired, so they can go to "bat" for you during negotiations w/ Honda Care.
Three days later, the Honda Care Adjuster swings by, talks to the shop foreman and the mechanic handling my car. I call my advisor up around noon and he tells me that I should be notified, later that day, if this will be covered under warranty. The day goes by without any more info.
I call back the next morning and my Service Advisor tells me that Honda Care has requested that I fax them copies of all my dealer service records. I get things going by calling the three dealerships in Houston that have done the 15k, 30k, and 60k. It takes one of these dealerships three days to successfully fax over my records which holds up the review process. Once that receive the complete set of records, my service advisor tells me that none of these services included an oil change. Honda Care now requests a log of the oil changes that I've performed.
Tip: Maintain a log of your services and keep receipts for all oil/oil filter purchases.
Tip: Open up a dialog with the Honda Care representative. In my case, I had the opportunity to convey the level of detail of my car care maintenance regime.
After they receive my logs, the Honda Care rep calls me back to let me know that the extended warranty will cover my repairs.
The Warranty Repair Process
Not being the hardcore motorhead that usually post on this forum, I'm not exactly sure type of damage I should expect from a main bearing failure. Of course, I want a new long block, but that's not going to happen. HondaCare calls and speaks to the shop manager at the dealer to discuss what they're going to do.
Apparently, Honda Care just wanted to give me a new crank.
The dealer fought for me and after their discussion, the HondaCare was persuaded into giving me a new short block.
One that decision was mad, it took 3 days for the short block to get in and another 3 days for my new OEM clutch components to work their way into the process. So I ended getting my car back 25 days after my engine blew.
Tip: Replace the clutch component while your engine is off the car when needed.
Final Thoughts
Overall, I'm extremely satisfied with how Honda Care took care of my problem. One their decision was made, it was a very quick process of getting me back on the road. I'm glad that I added the 7yr/100k mile warranty to the purchase of my car.
Questions for the masses:
1. What could cause my main bearing to wear down, even with regular oil changes every 3k miles w/ Royal Purple?
2. If you were the mechanic performing the repair, would you have a valve adjustment done when putting an old head on a new block?
3. How would you treat engine #2 if you think you did everything right with engine #1. Would you follow the 600 mile break-in or not? Would you switch over to synthetic berfore 12k miles?
The Noise
Well, I bought my car back in 8/2000 and have been using it as my daily driver until this fateful night. It was a Saturday morning(03/01/2003) around 12:30am and I was heading home with the top down and the radio volume pretty loud. I begin to notice a vibration on the steering wheel that I've never heard before. I lower the volume, raise the windows and I begin to hear a noise that sounds like sledgehammers banging in my engine bay. The vibration begins to get worse.
I push in the clutch, let off the gas and begin to coast to a gas station that's coming up. I just make it into the parking lot and shut the engine off. RudyW follows in behind me and parks next to me. He knows something is wrong too, because he could hear the noise while driving behind me.
We do the usual routine, pop the hood, check the oil (full), and try to figure out what's going on. I didn't want to try and restart it, risking any damage, but it got the best of me. I tried and it didn't even want to turn over. Probably a good thing.
Waiting for the tow truck
It was now 1:00am and we're sitting in a closed gas station. I went ahead and called my Honda Care Extended Warranty 24 hour Roadside Assistance number. I talk to the customer care rep, describe the situation, and request a tow truck. They locate the nearest dealer and the wait begins. About 20 minutes into the wait, RudyW asks if they were sending a flatbed. I know that we need a flatbed when being towed, but I just assumed that the Honda Care rep knew that too. I called back and sure enough, they had called out a regular tow truck. They cancelled the first tow truck and initiated a second tow truck request. Their ETA was 2 hours.
Tip: Even when calling HondaCare, request a flatbed tow truck.
About 2 hours later, the tow truck guy drives up and we exchange information. He begins to load up the car very carefully and secures it in place. It was very reminiscent of Wesmaster's 2 towings that I've witnessed. There's something about Red S2000's and tow trucks in Houston.
We lead the tow truck to the dealer and drop it off next to the service department. RudyW drops me off at my house around 5:00am and I get some sleep. I wake up around 10am and head to the dealership.
The Dealership
I walk in, give them my information and describe what I heard the night before. The service advisor mentions that nobody will take a look at my car until Monday. Not a problem.
They call me on Monday and say that they think the short block is damaged. They apparently got the car started and reproduced the problem that I had reported. The take the engine apart and notice the crank is damaged due to a main bearing failure. The #4 cylinder is also scoured due to the rod bearing damage caused by the wicked vibrations that worked its way up.
The Warranty Claim Process
This is where the fun begins. I have the 7 year/100,000 mile extended warranty and ask the Dealership Service Advisor "what happens next?". He told me that we have to wait for a Honda Care Adjuster to fly in, get the details, and make a judgment call on what the repairs will consist of. I'm beginning to feel that this review process could take a while.
Tip: Let the dealer know how you want the car to be repaired, so they can go to "bat" for you during negotiations w/ Honda Care.
Three days later, the Honda Care Adjuster swings by, talks to the shop foreman and the mechanic handling my car. I call my advisor up around noon and he tells me that I should be notified, later that day, if this will be covered under warranty. The day goes by without any more info.
I call back the next morning and my Service Advisor tells me that Honda Care has requested that I fax them copies of all my dealer service records. I get things going by calling the three dealerships in Houston that have done the 15k, 30k, and 60k. It takes one of these dealerships three days to successfully fax over my records which holds up the review process. Once that receive the complete set of records, my service advisor tells me that none of these services included an oil change. Honda Care now requests a log of the oil changes that I've performed.
Tip: Maintain a log of your services and keep receipts for all oil/oil filter purchases.
Tip: Open up a dialog with the Honda Care representative. In my case, I had the opportunity to convey the level of detail of my car care maintenance regime.
After they receive my logs, the Honda Care rep calls me back to let me know that the extended warranty will cover my repairs.
The Warranty Repair Process
Not being the hardcore motorhead that usually post on this forum, I'm not exactly sure type of damage I should expect from a main bearing failure. Of course, I want a new long block, but that's not going to happen. HondaCare calls and speaks to the shop manager at the dealer to discuss what they're going to do.
Apparently, Honda Care just wanted to give me a new crank.
The dealer fought for me and after their discussion, the HondaCare was persuaded into giving me a new short block. One that decision was mad, it took 3 days for the short block to get in and another 3 days for my new OEM clutch components to work their way into the process. So I ended getting my car back 25 days after my engine blew.
Tip: Replace the clutch component while your engine is off the car when needed.
Final Thoughts
Overall, I'm extremely satisfied with how Honda Care took care of my problem. One their decision was made, it was a very quick process of getting me back on the road. I'm glad that I added the 7yr/100k mile warranty to the purchase of my car.
Questions for the masses:
1. What could cause my main bearing to wear down, even with regular oil changes every 3k miles w/ Royal Purple?
2. If you were the mechanic performing the repair, would you have a valve adjustment done when putting an old head on a new block?
3. How would you treat engine #2 if you think you did everything right with engine #1. Would you follow the 600 mile break-in or not? Would you switch over to synthetic berfore 12k miles?
04-09-2003, 09:45 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Johnson City, Tenn.
Posts: 813
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Answer to #1: Sometimes you get defective bearings, I had to replace a rod bearing on my B18C5 w/in 1000mi. - simply because the bearing itself was defective.
Answer to question #2: Yes, a valve adjustment should have been done.
Answer to question #3: If you feel that you did everything w/in your power to prolong the life of engine #1, then stick w/ that method. Whenever you switch over to synthetics is your personal descision, but I would suggest you go through the break-in procedure again for peace of mind.
Glad to see Honda stuck up for you, congratulations on that regard.
Good luck.
Answer to question #2: Yes, a valve adjustment should have been done.
Answer to question #3: If you feel that you did everything w/in your power to prolong the life of engine #1, then stick w/ that method. Whenever you switch over to synthetics is your personal descision, but I would suggest you go through the break-in procedure again for peace of mind.
Glad to see Honda stuck up for you, congratulations on that regard.
Good luck.
04-09-2003, 12:29 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: HouStook TX
Posts: 8,821
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by coquinn
Answer to #1: Sometimes you get defective bearings, I had to replace a rod bearing on my B18C5 w/in 1000mi. - simply because the bearing itself was defective.
Answer to #1: Sometimes you get defective bearings, I had to replace a rod bearing on my B18C5 w/in 1000mi. - simply because the bearing itself was defective.
Originally posted by coquinn
Answer to question #2: Yes, a valve adjustment should have been done.
Answer to question #2: Yes, a valve adjustment should have been done.
I'm going to another dealer (John Eagle Honda) for the valve adjustment and an alignment.
Originally posted by coquinn
Answer to question #3: If you feel that you did everything w/in your power to prolong the life of engine #1, then stick w/ that method. Whenever you switch over to synthetics is your personal descision, but I would suggest you go through the break-in procedure again for peace of mind.
Answer to question #3: If you feel that you did everything w/in your power to prolong the life of engine #1, then stick w/ that method. Whenever you switch over to synthetics is your personal descision, but I would suggest you go through the break-in procedure again for peace of mind.
Originally posted by coquinn
Glad to see Honda stuck up for you, congratulations on that regard.
Good luck.
Glad to see Honda stuck up for you, congratulations on that regard.
Good luck.
04-09-2003, 12:37 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: la
Posts: 1,633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, me too!
On the synthetic oil: I would not use it until you have about 10k or so miles on the car. You want everything seated properly before using synthetic. Otherwise, the oil will prevent mating surfaces from seating properly.
On the bearing issue: Did your problem happen after a long high speed drive? I suspect it did. Most of them happen like that. Yet, driving the car hard on the racetrack at redline all day long, doesn't seem to have a problem. There has been talk about oil jet bolts not lubricating sufficiently. Maybe.
I think it has to do with a lean condition in the #4 cylinder causing excessive heat and subsequent damage to the bearing. There is a myth that at certain speed (not rpm) the manifold creates a lean condition in the #4 cyl. Prolonged use at the same speed and rpm will heat up that cyl. quick.
That could be the problem. That's just my opinion.
I'm not even gonna answer the question about valve adjustment.
On the synthetic oil: I would not use it until you have about 10k or so miles on the car. You want everything seated properly before using synthetic. Otherwise, the oil will prevent mating surfaces from seating properly.
On the bearing issue: Did your problem happen after a long high speed drive? I suspect it did. Most of them happen like that. Yet, driving the car hard on the racetrack at redline all day long, doesn't seem to have a problem. There has been talk about oil jet bolts not lubricating sufficiently. Maybe.
I think it has to do with a lean condition in the #4 cylinder causing excessive heat and subsequent damage to the bearing. There is a myth that at certain speed (not rpm) the manifold creates a lean condition in the #4 cyl. Prolonged use at the same speed and rpm will heat up that cyl. quick.
That could be the problem. That's just my opinion.
I'm not even gonna answer the question about valve adjustment.
04-10-2003, 05:11 AM
#6
Registered User
Joe, congratulations on getting your car back and fixed. Did you have to pay for the new clutch components? I would have been willing to, since I'd be replacing 76Kmile wear parts without the labor costs?
My short block replacement also took about 25 days, back in January 2001. My car was under warranty at 2 months and 650 miles from purchase. I think the Honda Care treatment you got was equal to the regular Honda warranty support. I now have a 7 year, 70,000 mile, $0 deductible Honda care warranty too.
I KNOW you do the break-in the same the second time around. The break in has to do with seating the rings, as much as anything else. With the new short block, you have brand new rings, pistons, cylinders, crank and they need the break-in as much as the original ones did.
The original engine has "special break in oil" and the replacement engine may or may not depending on how you "read" the situation. The short block is shipped with molybdenum grease on critical parts. Some of this molybdenum goes into the first oil fill and helps coat the parts. It probably would be a good idea to use a high molybdenum, petroleum based oil for the first 10,000 miles. I haven't done this. I just use whatever oil my dealer uses.
I know in the beginning you were worried that Honda Care wouldn't accept your home oil changes as documented adequately. I'm glad they did. It just shows the importance of logging these services even if you do it yourself.
Your new short block certainly DOES HAVE the redesigned oil jet bolts. You can check the short block and see if the s/n is after 1025386, but I bet it is.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by slick rick
[B]On the bearing issue:
My short block replacement also took about 25 days, back in January 2001. My car was under warranty at 2 months and 650 miles from purchase. I think the Honda Care treatment you got was equal to the regular Honda warranty support. I now have a 7 year, 70,000 mile, $0 deductible Honda care warranty too.
I KNOW you do the break-in the same the second time around. The break in has to do with seating the rings, as much as anything else. With the new short block, you have brand new rings, pistons, cylinders, crank and they need the break-in as much as the original ones did.
The original engine has "special break in oil" and the replacement engine may or may not depending on how you "read" the situation. The short block is shipped with molybdenum grease on critical parts. Some of this molybdenum goes into the first oil fill and helps coat the parts. It probably would be a good idea to use a high molybdenum, petroleum based oil for the first 10,000 miles. I haven't done this. I just use whatever oil my dealer uses.
I know in the beginning you were worried that Honda Care wouldn't accept your home oil changes as documented adequately. I'm glad they did. It just shows the importance of logging these services even if you do it yourself.
Your new short block certainly DOES HAVE the redesigned oil jet bolts. You can check the short block and see if the s/n is after 1025386, but I bet it is.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by slick rick
[B]On the bearing issue:
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post