The Unabageler

plenty of oil...but going from 90*F desert to 40*F mountaintops with snow on the sides of the road makes is pretty big change in environment. the car acted normal once I got back to the base of the mtns.

twohoos

This reasoning is just naive. I'd expect better from a board veteran like you, cdelena. By this reasoning, there's no point in doing any mods whatsoever, because the S2000 is Honda's "signature performance car" and therefore must be optimized in every possible performance aspect. I guess all those who have used a VAFC to lower the VTEC point and then MEASURED a gain in HP must be lying, correct?

Did it occur to you that Honda might deliberately err on the side of caution when releasing a warranted product? That they might program the ECU to run rich in VTEC to promote longevity, or that they might engage VTEC later than the optimal point to save emissions and fuel? That they, in other words, might want to account for the fact that a single ECU design has to operate in every possible driving condition imaginable?

Hmm, maybe Bieg has taken over cdelena's account...

Gernby

twohoos,

I don't think cdelena was trying to say that there weren't optimizations out there for specific needs. I think that he was defending the Honda engineer's choices for the every day uses of this car. I think that it is a little niave on the part of the thread's creator to expect that the Honda engineer's would optimize EVERY aspect of this car for POWER.

CMiS2K

"The Honda engineers certainly are not stupid"

part of a quote from the creator of the thread. he isn't being nieve at all.

His observation is what many of us have also observed, this is why I bought a VAFC, but have not had time to get the harness and install the vafc and have it tuned.

cdelena

I erased my first two word response to your post. If your tirade is all you think of my comments then a further response from me is not needed.. I doubt anything more I could say on the subject would make any difference to you.

baxdatass

It's Honda guys. Those crazy crack smocking bastards know what they are doing. It doesn't matter how many hours we spend pondering this very issue. It will never come close to one months worth or Hondas R&D. I'm not trying to say that I know the exact reason why Honda put the vtec engagement point where they did. All I'm trying to say is that it is in fact Honda. They are known for their ability to build near indestructible engines. I don't think that they would start now just to get a little more of a kick feel out of the engine in the S2000.

Kaptain Insano

I imagaine the VTEC engangement point is determined by calculating the most efficient power generation point by trying to keep the fuel/air ratio close to the stoichiometric ratio for complete combustion.

S2K2GO!!!

Could this mean that the ECU is looking at manifold pressure rather than throttle position? Seems like you would want the hig-lift cam operating at altitude(imagine youself trying to work hard up there!). I wonder if the MP sensor is looking at absolute MP or the MP/ambient differential.

twohoos

OK, reading it again, I was clearly too harsh. Sorry.

In my defense, and for clarification, I'll just make two points:
- My sarcastic tone was in response to what I felt was a snappish, sarcastic post ("do you really think... "). But again, I clearly went too far in my response.
- As an engineer, it's second-nature to me to see every aspect of a car as a design choice that's based on a variety of factors, performance being only one. So, I have a bit of a pet peeve about people on this board being dismissive of those who question Honda's design choices simply because they *believe* Honda could do no wrong, that the car's maxed out in stock form, that you'll never see any gains from mods, etc. In other words, the "Bieg syndrome". In fact, this board's members have shown over and over that our car's design, while far more performance-oriented than most, is still the result of concessions and compromises, and its performance CAN be improved. (And remember, the original poster stated that his concern was that the optimal VTEC point be chosen based on torque/power.)

I've long respected your posts, cdelena, and was honestly dumbstruck to see what I felt was "Bieg syndrome" cropping up from you. My reaction was over-harsh, and certainly not intended as a personal one (I was really ranting against all the Biegs out there).

Hope this helps clear the air. Let's continue to talk tech.

John

cmnsnse

Aren't other cam switches around the same RPM of ~6000? What about the Toyota Celica's?
I thought it's switchover was 6k and redline of 7800 . . .

How about the NSX, where is that one?And the RSX, ITR, and so on . . . Maybe its not at all engine specific? Are there any parameters in the emissions laws that point to 6000rpm?