P1399 Code + Flashing MIL/CEL
12-07-2013, 11:10 AM
#11
Thread Starter
I also snapped a tappet screw and I know that exact feeling.
I don't have any reinstall info outside of the service manual, but I can share my frustrations and eventual success in removing the remainder of the tappet screw.
I removed the camshafts and flipped the rocker up and tried to twist the screw out a pair of vice grips. The vice grips kept slipping; the surface had spent it's entire life in oil and was smooth before that. I considered replacing the rocker itself, but that would be more work, money, and time (best case scenario two days to overnight a new part from CA).
Instead of that I took a half dozen blue shop towels, coated them in motor oil, and covered the entire valvetrain assembly except for the rocker. Then I had a friend hold the shopvac while I ground flats on the tappet screw. I was able to get purchase and twist the screw out.
Good luck!
I don't have any reinstall info outside of the service manual, but I can share my frustrations and eventual success in removing the remainder of the tappet screw.
I removed the camshafts and flipped the rocker up and tried to twist the screw out a pair of vice grips. The vice grips kept slipping; the surface had spent it's entire life in oil and was smooth before that. I considered replacing the rocker itself, but that would be more work, money, and time (best case scenario two days to overnight a new part from CA).
Instead of that I took a half dozen blue shop towels, coated them in motor oil, and covered the entire valvetrain assembly except for the rocker. Then I had a friend hold the shopvac while I ground flats on the tappet screw. I was able to get purchase and twist the screw out.
Good luck!
**UPDATE**
I had to pull the rocker assembly, remove the offending rockers (yes, I found two more with distorted threads), cut the tappet screw heads off and back the screws out the opposite direction. I'll provide a separate post regarding this issue with a DIY regarding my solution when I can get to it. A picture of the rocker with the broken screw is provided. The thread damage on the part of the screw remaining in the rocker was due to having to use vice grips to rotate the screw to give sufficient clearance to cut the flared bottom of the screw off. The two pieces were about as perfect a puzzle match as I could have hoped for. I couldn't find any other remnants in the head and I fished with a telescopic magnet which recovered no remnants. That was a relief.
[attachment=50438
SC02014.JPG]
12-13-2013, 02:19 PM
#12
Thread Starter
I'll discuss the last and unrelated problem regarding the broken valve adjustment screw in a separate post. A BIG Thank You to Billman for answering my questions and providing some sage advice in solving the above mentioned problem - You are the best.
Everything is resolved and my car is back up and running better than in a long time.
Attached are some pictures and I think I can safely surmise the excessive spark gap was the trigger for the misfire code. The picture is of the worst spark plug - Cylinder #1. The gap was between 1.25 and 1.3mm. Again, max spec is 1.10mm.
I ran a leak down test after I got everything back together and the numbers were more than within spec. My car had a little over 87,000 miles on it as of the test (this morning).
Procedure: I ran my car just until it came to normal temp, then let it sit for 20 minutes before pulling the plugs. It may have not been a perfectly "wet" test, but the numbers are still well within limits. The leak down on all cylinders presented past the pistons due to the fact the faint noise was coming from the crank case (evident through the dipstick hole).
Here are the numbers (pictures below):
Cylinder #1: approximately 2.5% leak down.
Cylinder #3: approximately 2.0% leak down.
Cylinder #4: approximately 1.5-1.75% leak down.
Cylinder #2: approximately 2.0% leak down.
[attachment=50437SC02062.JPG][attachment=50436SC02058.JPG][attachment=50435SC02056.JPG][attachment=50434SC02055.JPG][attachment=50433SC02017.JPG][attachment=50432SC02016.JPG]
Everything is resolved and my car is back up and running better than in a long time.
Attached are some pictures and I think I can safely surmise the excessive spark gap was the trigger for the misfire code. The picture is of the worst spark plug - Cylinder #1. The gap was between 1.25 and 1.3mm. Again, max spec is 1.10mm.
I ran a leak down test after I got everything back together and the numbers were more than within spec. My car had a little over 87,000 miles on it as of the test (this morning).
Procedure: I ran my car just until it came to normal temp, then let it sit for 20 minutes before pulling the plugs. It may have not been a perfectly "wet" test, but the numbers are still well within limits. The leak down on all cylinders presented past the pistons due to the fact the faint noise was coming from the crank case (evident through the dipstick hole).
Here are the numbers (pictures below):
Cylinder #1: approximately 2.5% leak down.
Cylinder #3: approximately 2.0% leak down.
Cylinder #4: approximately 1.5-1.75% leak down.
Cylinder #2: approximately 2.0% leak down.
[attachment=50437
SC02062.JPG][attachment=50436SC02058.JPG][attachment=50435SC02056.JPG][attachment=50434SC02055.JPG][attachment=50433SC02017.JPG][attachment=50432SC02016.JPG]
01-11-2014, 11:14 AM
#13
Thread Starter
I have run my car (very hard at times) with no hint or other evidence of a misfire, to include no CEL/MIL. My car is running smoother and I recovered about 2 mpg since the spark plug change - which is a little unexpected considering it's been so cold here, I am running my car harder than I have in a long time, and I usually lose a mpg or two when it's cold.
I could not find the exact mileage when I installed the previous set of spark plugs. I replaced the factory spark plugs with iridium plugs several years ago and then removed them with perhaps ~15k miles on the plugs due to the few horror stories that were circulating around about the plugs (almost all involving FI, but I didn't want to take the risk). There was also no benefit (performance or mileage) to the iridium plugs either. My best estimate (based on the timeline) is I replaced the iridium plugs with Honda OEM (red box) plugs some time in 2008, which means the plugs I just replaced (that were out of spec) had about 45k-48k miles on them. Based on that, I plan on checking the gap every 25k or so to ensure the plugs don't go out of spec again.
The OEM platinum plugs potentially could go as long as 100k miles depending on if your car is stock or modified, and how you drive (it's not the miles on the clock, it's how many RPMs you average per mile) if the gap remains in spec. However, if they go out of spec it is never a good idea to try and re-gap them - just replace them, and replace them with OEM Honda plugs because the gap is taken care of for you and you don't need to worry about damaging the spark plugs attempting to re-gap them. My car has had 4.57 gears, an AP2 transmission - and then later 4.44 gears since around 25k miles. Therefore, my car has legitimately seen more "mileage" than a stock car due to the higher average RPMs per mile. That - and the fact I have never been shy about pushing the RPMs. That's another reason I am so happy about the very low leak down % numbers my car continues to demonstrate (and why I am a huge fan of Amsoil motor, transmission and gear oils).
One last note on spark plugs - always check the OEM plugs for proper gap and just return any for an exchange at the dealer if they are out of spec. If you try to re-gap the OEM plugs, the dealership will not accept a return.
Of course, the above spark plug information only applies to stock, mildly modified NA and some moderately modified NA applications. If you are running FI - then you'll need to reference the FI forums for the best spark plug solution for your particular setup.
I could not find the exact mileage when I installed the previous set of spark plugs. I replaced the factory spark plugs with iridium plugs several years ago and then removed them with perhaps ~15k miles on the plugs due to the few horror stories that were circulating around about the plugs (almost all involving FI, but I didn't want to take the risk). There was also no benefit (performance or mileage) to the iridium plugs either. My best estimate (based on the timeline) is I replaced the iridium plugs with Honda OEM (red box) plugs some time in 2008, which means the plugs I just replaced (that were out of spec) had about 45k-48k miles on them. Based on that, I plan on checking the gap every 25k or so to ensure the plugs don't go out of spec again.
The OEM platinum plugs potentially could go as long as 100k miles depending on if your car is stock or modified, and how you drive (it's not the miles on the clock, it's how many RPMs you average per mile) if the gap remains in spec. However, if they go out of spec it is never a good idea to try and re-gap them - just replace them, and replace them with OEM Honda plugs because the gap is taken care of for you and you don't need to worry about damaging the spark plugs attempting to re-gap them. My car has had 4.57 gears, an AP2 transmission - and then later 4.44 gears since around 25k miles. Therefore, my car has legitimately seen more "mileage" than a stock car due to the higher average RPMs per mile. That - and the fact I have never been shy about pushing the RPMs. That's another reason I am so happy about the very low leak down % numbers my car continues to demonstrate (and why I am a huge fan of Amsoil motor, transmission and gear oils).
One last note on spark plugs - always check the OEM plugs for proper gap and just return any for an exchange at the dealer if they are out of spec. If you try to re-gap the OEM plugs, the dealership will not accept a return.
Of course, the above spark plug information only applies to stock, mildly modified NA and some moderately modified NA applications. If you are running FI - then you'll need to reference the FI forums for the best spark plug solution for your particular setup.
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