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Here is an old pic I dug up showing a bad retainer, I wish it were better.
Obviously you won't get this good a look at things without pulling cams and rockers but with a small dental mirror and some patience you should be able to get a good look. On a good retainer the retainers, keepers, and valve tip should be almost level with one another. Again, the exhaust side should give a good comparison. Good luck.
I had a perfect pic with broken retainers, from the same engine as pictured above. Someone p-shopped it with two red arrows. HE may have a copy of the modded pic...have to look
You still don't quite understand what the rev limiter can and cannot do and how this is different from the car's speed and inertia "driving" the engine far beyond the rev limiter.
Let's say you are going 90 mph in 3rd at redline (AP1). You go to shift into 4th, but get 2nd instead. 2nd is good for 65 mph at redline. Your car's weight and speed can physically propel 2nd gear to 90 mph. This would FAR exceed 9000 rpm and the rev limiter will do nothing nor will it sound any different. A rough guestimate would put that up to around 12,000 rpm.
The rev limiter ONLY works and you can ONLY feel it IF you are using the engine to ACCELERATE the car. Doing a mis-shift DOWN to a lower gear causes the engine to be DRIVEN by the car, not the other way around. Passing through the rev limiter rpm when the engine is driven produces not discernable difference as the fuel is already cut off.
XViper,
I completely understand both before and after your post. I am very well aware of the difference between a mechanical overrev and ....that's about it, because with a rev limiter, you can't 'normally' overrev.
What I was saying was that I thought I overred the motor when I misshifted thinking I was going approximately 65mph when in actuality, when I downshift, the engine compression braking pulled my speed down a couple mph to where I was just sitting on the rev limiter.
I physically heard and felt the engine rev limiter popping for a second or two, until I clutched in and selected the correct gear. I was so shocked I had missed the gear, it took a bit longer to realize what I had done. In 4.5 years of roadracing, autocross, drag racing, street racing, etc. I never missed a gear in my C5, though I did have a B&M Ripper shifter installed.
Anyway, I lucked out because I realized I wasn't going as fast as I originally thought when I misshifted, so I didn't cause a mechanical overrev and about 2,000 miles of HARD driving later, the motor still feels perfect.
Took a lot of screwing with my camera to get this pic right....
I've assembled some parts to give a good idea what to look for as far as broken retainers. Notice on the broken retainer, you will NOT see the crack underneath. But you will notice the valve and keepers are sunk down in the retainer.
......Good retainer on the left.................Broken retainer on the right.......
Great pics. All I need now is a dental tool. I've never removed the valve-cover before. I know I need to "break" the bolts loose. What I want to know is is there some kind of seal under the valve cover that needs to be replaced; gasket or liquid? I'd like to know before I remove the valve cover so I can actually drive to go get it. Also, when breaking the bolts loose, should I spray WD-40 first and let it soak in? I'll be changing my diff and tranny fluid soon also, and am wondering the same thing about breaking those bolts loose also. I used to have an old '87 Accord. I tried to remove the fill bolt on the tranny last year to change the manual tranny fluid. Probably the first time it would have ever been done. I didn't use any WD-40 and ended up rounding the bolt off. I didn't know about the "breaking loose" technique then, though. It's a good thing I tried the fill bolt first. Funny thing is 5th gear went out a few months after that. Thanks for all the help guys.
Should not need the WD-40. I think you have a misconception. The bolts aren't tough in that you need a lot of force, you just need a quick snap motion to break the bond with the head. As for the dental tool, most pharmacies have them. One point in your case (being an 02) is the spark plug TSB. If you are going to get in there you might as well check to see if you have the latest plug and check to make sure the torque is still up to spec. There have been a significant number of cases where both the old and new plugs have backed out and killed an engine and you are going to be right there. It would be foolish not to check.
dude its fine, ive personally seen a AP2 rev out to 12K under light load. It's the bottom end u worry about you won't get valve float till around 12kish after that the valve could hit hte piston and BOOM, u'd know if u had a prob here, u'd bend the valve when the piston smacked it and your power would go to shit and it'd sound ilke shit too no worries man, ur bottom end will be fine it was under no load, drivetrain and clutch took the hit . they'll be fine
08-18-2005, 10:17 AM
