Oil Filter
03-28-2008, 10:16 AM
#11
Originally Posted by DR. FEINSTONE,Mar 27 2008, 07:58 PM
SLALOM 44. I am not familiar with amsoil filter. Are you using an oversize oil filter?Amsoil filters are excellent filters. If you want to read more about them, go to Bobistheoilguy.
03-28-2008, 10:11 PM
#12
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All full-flow filters are horrible.
The best claim to take down particulate matter to around 15 microns in size.
Microns between 5-15 are that cause all the damage to your internals. Its like liquid sandpaper.
Full-flow filters are just there to keep really big particulate out as they have bypasses in them themselves to let unfiltered oil back into the engine.
The best claim to take down particulate matter to around 15 microns in size.
Microns between 5-15 are that cause all the damage to your internals. Its like liquid sandpaper.
Full-flow filters are just there to keep really big particulate out as they have bypasses in them themselves to let unfiltered oil back into the engine.
03-28-2008, 10:17 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by slalom44,Mar 27 2008, 05:06 AM
I'm using Amsoil oil filters, my last UOA was 14 months and over 24,000 miles, and my last Used Oil Analysis was great. read more
But that's with a bypass filter and prelube pump as well. Personally, I believe that the Amsoil oil filter will hold up fine for the 15,000 miles as you have suggested, but you're going to pick up more wear particles over time. There is a chance that with the added particulates your filter will go into bypass mode longer during startups.
My setup addresses these issues. Instead of using the EaO-20 filter recommended by Amsoil for the S2000, my bypass setup allows me to use an EaO-15 filter (or the previous SDF-15 filter), which is huge. Also, the bypass filter pulls a lot of particulates out of the system and I've done several UOAs just to make sure that it's running the way it is supposed to.
If you are serious about using an EaO-20 filter for 15,000 miles, I suggest you use a really good synthetic oil (like Amsoil 0W-30) and run a UOA at your first oil change. And if you do a lot of short distance driving or excessive idling, then I'd forget about it.
But that's with a bypass filter and prelube pump as well. Personally, I believe that the Amsoil oil filter will hold up fine for the 15,000 miles as you have suggested, but you're going to pick up more wear particles over time. There is a chance that with the added particulates your filter will go into bypass mode longer during startups.
My setup addresses these issues. Instead of using the EaO-20 filter recommended by Amsoil for the S2000, my bypass setup allows me to use an EaO-15 filter (or the previous SDF-15 filter), which is huge. Also, the bypass filter pulls a lot of particulates out of the system and I've done several UOAs just to make sure that it's running the way it is supposed to.
If you are serious about using an EaO-20 filter for 15,000 miles, I suggest you use a really good synthetic oil (like Amsoil 0W-30) and run a UOA at your first oil change. And if you do a lot of short distance driving or excessive idling, then I'd forget about it.
The reason that I ask is I am about to become a vendor on here selling an on-board oil recycling system that keeps engine oil cleaner than brand new oil.
Our system will pull all particulate out down to one micron in size (any smaller and you pull out all your essential additives) as well as 100% of the water. This creates for a virtually wear-free motor and pro-longs oil drain intervals.
I'm not trying to sell anything just yet but was curious if another s2000 was running one already. It is really great stuff
03-29-2008, 02:15 PM
#14
Originally Posted by 3vilmonkey!,Mar 29 2008, 01:17 AM
You are talking about a bypass full-flow filter? Or a bypass loop?
The bypass filter is known to filter down to around 1 micron. You can read more about it on Amsoil's website.
03-29-2008, 03:56 PM
#15
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And you said you do oil analysis? What are your particulate (ISO) numbers looking like?
I'll have to get pictures of my system installed up soon. Do you have any of yours?
Thanks.
I'll have to get pictures of my system installed up soon. Do you have any of yours?
Thanks.
03-29-2008, 10:40 PM
#16
Originally Posted by slalom44,Mar 27 2008, 07:06 AM
I'm using Amsoil oil filters, my last UOA was 14 months and over 24,000 miles, and my last Used Oil Analysis was great. read more
But that's with a bypass filter and prelube pump as well. Personally, I believe that the Amsoil oil filter will hold up fine for the 15,000 miles as you have suggested, but you're going to pick up more wear particles over time. There is a chance that with the added particulates your filter will go into bypass mode longer during startups.
My setup addresses these issues. Instead of using the EaO-20 filter recommended by Amsoil for the S2000, my bypass setup allows me to use an EaO-15 filter (or the previous SDF-15 filter), which is huge. Also, the bypass filter pulls a lot of particulates out of the system and I've done several UOAs just to make sure that it's running the way it is supposed to.
If you are serious about using an EaO-20 filter for 15,000 miles, I suggest you use a really good synthetic oil (like Amsoil 0W-30) and run a UOA at your first oil change. And if you do a lot of short distance driving or excessive idling, then I'd forget about it.
But that's with a bypass filter and prelube pump as well. Personally, I believe that the Amsoil oil filter will hold up fine for the 15,000 miles as you have suggested, but you're going to pick up more wear particles over time. There is a chance that with the added particulates your filter will go into bypass mode longer during startups.
My setup addresses these issues. Instead of using the EaO-20 filter recommended by Amsoil for the S2000, my bypass setup allows me to use an EaO-15 filter (or the previous SDF-15 filter), which is huge. Also, the bypass filter pulls a lot of particulates out of the system and I've done several UOAs just to make sure that it's running the way it is supposed to.
If you are serious about using an EaO-20 filter for 15,000 miles, I suggest you use a really good synthetic oil (like Amsoil 0W-30) and run a UOA at your first oil change. And if you do a lot of short distance driving or excessive idling, then I'd forget about it.
With that being said, there is an issue with using an aftermarket "full flow" filter - and it has nothing to do with the filter media (for note: Amsoil EA oil filters use the best filter media on the market), it has to do with the pressure bypass function of the filter.
Most full flow oil filters will begin to bypass at around 75-85psi - and this includes most Amsoil full flow filters. The OEM Honda filter for the S2000 is specifically designed to bypass at over 100psi - due to the high oil pressures produced in the S2000's engine.
I'm an Amsoil dealer but DO NOT use Amsoil full flow filters (or any other filter for that matter) on my S2000 for that very reason. I ONLY use the OEM Honda "PCX" oil filter on my S2000 - because the filter was specifically designed for the S2000.
Consider this: Almost every modern vehicle built by Honda uses essentially the same filter. The only late model vehicle that uses a specific filter is the S2000, and it's due to the unique operating requirements of the engine.
03-29-2008, 11:53 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by slipstream444,Mar 29 2008, 10:40 PM
However, "bypass" oil systems are really designed for over the road type of vehicles (vehicles that spend 90% of their time running at a constant speed). The S2000 really doesn't fit this style of driving
I am with a company called KleenOil USA. Wal-Mart, Tom Thumb/Safeway, Swift Foods, Rodman, Mario Sinacola and Sons, Lattimore, and literally thousands of others all use our product.
Sure, some of our customers are over the road trucks but a significant portion of our clients are involved with construction or drilling. This means that they will be idling most of them time and their PM schedule is based on hours not mileage.
For example, our on board oil recycling system has taken Energy drilling from 300 hours on a 60qt sump to 4,000 hours safely. They then sent an oil sample without specifying the hours on the sample to the guys at Cat. The person at Cat called and told them that the oil was so clean he would put it in his brand new Lexus that day.
With that being said, by-pass filtration will work great on the s2000. Unless I am mistaken and you are specifically speaking of the Amsoil bypass instead of our system.
03-30-2008, 07:57 AM
#19
Originally Posted by 3vilmonkey!,Mar 30 2008, 01:53 AM
I have to disagree with you on the bypass loops being designed specifically for over the road vehicles.
I am with a company called KleenOil USA. Wal-Mart, Tom Thumb/Safeway, Swift Foods, Rodman, Mario Sinacola and Sons, Lattimore, and literally thousands of others all use our product.
Sure, some of our customers are over the road trucks but a significant portion of our clients are involved with construction or drilling. This means that they will be idling most of them time and their PM schedule is based on hours not mileage.
For example, our on board oil recycling system has taken Energy drilling from 300 hours on a 60qt sump to 4,000 hours safely. They then sent an oil sample without specifying the hours on the sample to the guys at Cat. The person at Cat called and told them that the oil was so clean he would put it in his brand new Lexus that day.
With that being said, by-pass filtration will work great on the s2000. Unless I am mistaken and you are specifically speaking of the Amsoil bypass instead of our system.
I am with a company called KleenOil USA. Wal-Mart, Tom Thumb/Safeway, Swift Foods, Rodman, Mario Sinacola and Sons, Lattimore, and literally thousands of others all use our product.
Sure, some of our customers are over the road trucks but a significant portion of our clients are involved with construction or drilling. This means that they will be idling most of them time and their PM schedule is based on hours not mileage.
For example, our on board oil recycling system has taken Energy drilling from 300 hours on a 60qt sump to 4,000 hours safely. They then sent an oil sample without specifying the hours on the sample to the guys at Cat. The person at Cat called and told them that the oil was so clean he would put it in his brand new Lexus that day.
With that being said, by-pass filtration will work great on the s2000. Unless I am mistaken and you are specifically speaking of the Amsoil bypass instead of our system.
Relatively constant highway speeds implies the engine will be running at a relatively constant RPM for a majority of it's operating cycle. Diesel engines also have a relatively narrow operating RPM as well. Additionally, the only real benefit of bypass oil filtration systems is to greatly extend the life of the oil under the conditions typically seen by this type of equipment.
Engines that see a lot of idling time (as in your example) also operate at relatively constant RPMs, which is consistent with my example.
The S2000 does not fit either of these models (unless you let your S2000 idle for hours on end). The S2000 has one of the largest RPM bands of any production automobile, and if you drive the car the way it was meant to be driven - the operation of the engine is anything but at a "constant" RPM. (BTW - for those that don't know what a bypass oil system is, it's an externally and remotely mounted (and large!) filtration system that taps off oil supply and slowly filters the oil through media as fine as 0.5-1 micron. It is incorrect to say there is no pressure loss or there is no "drag" on the system because your engine's oil pump has to also provide the force to push the oil through the much denser filter media - there is a pressure drop. How much? It depends on the vehicle's oil supply pump. High volume pump: no problem; High pressure/low volume pump: possible problem)
Once again, I don't see a problem with using a bypass filter system as long as there is not a significant drop in oil pressure across the system. This requires a little extra work on the part of the installer to measure before and after pressures at idle and through the RPM band. This is not an issue in the case of OTR or heavy duty truck equipment due to the high volume oil pumps and narrow operating RPMs seen on these types of engines. However, the S2000 uses a high pressure oil pump system to keep things separated at high RPMs, and may not put out enough volume needed to accommodate the introduction of an externally mounted bypass filter system. (Now I'll shift from the bypass oil filtration subject back to the full flow oil filter subject)
Cutting much pressure at the top end will greatly reduce the life of the S2000's engine - which is the main reason you should stick with the OEM PCX filter. It's not a good thing when a filter bypasses due to pressure. This should only happen if something is wrong with the filter - in order to keep supplying oil to the engine. In this situation, bypassed and unfiltered oil is better than NO oil, but should no means be a mode of normal operation due to the limitations of a "one size fits all" aftermarket full flow filter. Most aftermarket filters WILL bypass oil when the S2000's engine needs it the most - at high RPMs when the pressure is greatest. Additionally, it takes a few psi of force to operate the bypass mechanism in the filter itself, which means another drop in pressure at just the wrong time.
Do what you want - but going with any filter other than the PCX filter is a very bad idea. Like I said - I'm an Amsoil dealer (although I don't actively sell - I bought into it for my own use before Amsoil came out with their Preferred Customer Program and online store - in order NOT to get ripped off on price), but DO NOT use any aftermarket filter, including Amsoil oil filters.
03-30-2008, 11:32 AM
#20
Slipstream makes a good point. The backpressure on my sysem is greater, partially due to the biasing valve in the BMK-13 and partially due to the extra plumbing.
I know that the pressure relief valve on the F20C opens up at around 95 psi. I also know that the oil pressure is greatest with a cold engine and cold oil. The oil pressure actually drops during VTEC. And since I use Amsoil SSO 0W-30 oil, I'm minimizing the amount of oil going through bypass, and I'm getting full flow during the most critical times. My UOAs have confirmed that everything is working fine.
That being said, I admit that I do quite a bit of long distance driving, and the idea of getting extended OCIs along with low engine wear appealed to me. This setup isn't ideal for most drivers on this site. If I spent a lot of time in VTEC, I would shorten my OCI and do more oil analyses before attempting to go as long as I have.
This is just an extreme example of what can be done to our car's oil filtration system.
3vilmonkey! - if you want to see my UOAs and pictures of my setup, click the link in my first post. Pictures and a complete description of my setup is in a link on that site.
I know that the pressure relief valve on the F20C opens up at around 95 psi. I also know that the oil pressure is greatest with a cold engine and cold oil. The oil pressure actually drops during VTEC. And since I use Amsoil SSO 0W-30 oil, I'm minimizing the amount of oil going through bypass, and I'm getting full flow during the most critical times. My UOAs have confirmed that everything is working fine.
That being said, I admit that I do quite a bit of long distance driving, and the idea of getting extended OCIs along with low engine wear appealed to me. This setup isn't ideal for most drivers on this site. If I spent a lot of time in VTEC, I would shorten my OCI and do more oil analyses before attempting to go as long as I have.
This is just an extreme example of what can be done to our car's oil filtration system.
3vilmonkey! - if you want to see my UOAs and pictures of my setup, click the link in my first post. Pictures and a complete description of my setup is in a link on that site.