New Clutch Setup Question
10-28-2016, 08:30 PM
#11
Think it will resurface fine.
10-30-2016, 10:57 AM
#12
I just installed the set up you are describing, finished the install this week. I bought some Red thread lock for the flywheel/PP bolts as reccomended by the ACT instructions. Also Urea grease, dont skimp here, get the honda urea grease its awesome. I broke the Pivot ball on my shifter, so Im waiting for that to come in, the car rides/shifts fine, just have a wobbly shifter until i replace that. A couple things I ran into while doing this: Make sure you know where your bolts go when reinstalling the transmission. (obviously this is essential duh) But I ****ed up and threaded a Long bolt into a spot where it shouldnt be, and punched a hole through the bak of my block. I got lucky as the bolt just threaded its way out the back of the block and didnt do any internal damage. But it could have been catastrophic. The longer bolts(3x) thread from the engine into the transmission. The shorter bolts thread from the transmission into the engine.
Get some swivel adapters and about 2.5 to 3 feet of extension to get to the starter and the top tranny bolts.I also had to use the swivels to get the driveshaft bolts off, as the clearance is very tight using an allen key driver and a socket wrench. I believe it is a 6mm for the AP1 and 8mm for the ap2 on the driveshaft bolts so make sure you get the right ones. I got it all from harbor freight.
Make sure you alighn the clutch disk as much as you can with an alighnment tool. I had to make my own cause the pilot bearing was a different size then the diameter of the clutch alignment tool i borrowed from my friends 240sx. I just made a taper with some painters tape wrapped around the tool, to make it fit the pilot bearing . Even when I thought it was aligned it was still pretty difficult to get it to slide back onto the shaft, had to do a bit of shaking/twisting/jerking to get it to seat. dont be too aggresive or you will mess up your splines on the clutch disk. Make sure to install the fork/hanger/spring before you reattach the trans and grease those bitches up.
When it was all back together, I had to adjust the push rod behind the pedal to the proper height to get the engagement point correct, and so it would dissengage the clutch fully and allow a smoth shift. If i think of anything else Ill let you know. Sorry for the spelling errors. Also, take my advice with a bit of a grain of salt, this was my first clutch job ever and im still a newbie mechanically. However i thought id chime in as I litterally just did this and it was fresh in my mind.
good luck
Get some swivel adapters and about 2.5 to 3 feet of extension to get to the starter and the top tranny bolts.I also had to use the swivels to get the driveshaft bolts off, as the clearance is very tight using an allen key driver and a socket wrench. I believe it is a 6mm for the AP1 and 8mm for the ap2 on the driveshaft bolts so make sure you get the right ones. I got it all from harbor freight.
Make sure you alighn the clutch disk as much as you can with an alighnment tool. I had to make my own cause the pilot bearing was a different size then the diameter of the clutch alignment tool i borrowed from my friends 240sx. I just made a taper with some painters tape wrapped around the tool, to make it fit the pilot bearing . Even when I thought it was aligned it was still pretty difficult to get it to slide back onto the shaft, had to do a bit of shaking/twisting/jerking to get it to seat. dont be too aggresive or you will mess up your splines on the clutch disk. Make sure to install the fork/hanger/spring before you reattach the trans and grease those bitches up.
When it was all back together, I had to adjust the push rod behind the pedal to the proper height to get the engagement point correct, and so it would dissengage the clutch fully and allow a smoth shift. If i think of anything else Ill let you know. Sorry for the spelling errors. Also, take my advice with a bit of a grain of salt, this was my first clutch job ever and im still a newbie mechanically. However i thought id chime in as I litterally just did this and it was fresh in my mind.
good luck
10-30-2016, 07:15 PM
#13
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Thanks hardflip... this will be first clutch job aswell!! im just waiting for all my parts to arrive. ive heard that the swivel adapters a must. good thing people mention this everywhere.
10-30-2016, 07:58 PM
#14
More tips:
Once you lower subframe, you can get to the upper trans bolts from above, using a ratcheting box wrench.
Remove alternator and its really easy to get to upper starter bolt with an extension. Use flashlight between intake runners to see bolt head.
Mark steering joint before disconnecting. Mark both ends of driveshaft too.
Driveshaft slides, which gives more room for socket wrench.
Regular jackstands aren't tall enough. The huge 6 ton ones though, those work well. I got car up on the stands as high as jack would go, then put a board on some cinder blocks to raise jack up enough to get to upper range of the stands. Then I left the cinder blocks in place to act as a safety backup in case car fell off stands.
+1 on the bolt lengths. Previous shop the PO had do the clutch last time (crappy exedy that didn't last long) had these all wrong and some even missing. So don't just go by where they came out unless you're sure this is first time trans dropped.
If trans doesn't want to come off, you missed a bolt somewhere. You shouldn't have to really pry it off, though it does take some effort to separate.
Theres gonna be a lot more clutch dust than you expect if you've never done a clutch before. Good idea to clean block and trans.
Once you lower subframe, you can get to the upper trans bolts from above, using a ratcheting box wrench.
Remove alternator and its really easy to get to upper starter bolt with an extension. Use flashlight between intake runners to see bolt head.
Mark steering joint before disconnecting. Mark both ends of driveshaft too.
Driveshaft slides, which gives more room for socket wrench.
Regular jackstands aren't tall enough. The huge 6 ton ones though, those work well. I got car up on the stands as high as jack would go, then put a board on some cinder blocks to raise jack up enough to get to upper range of the stands. Then I left the cinder blocks in place to act as a safety backup in case car fell off stands.
+1 on the bolt lengths. Previous shop the PO had do the clutch last time (crappy exedy that didn't last long) had these all wrong and some even missing. So don't just go by where they came out unless you're sure this is first time trans dropped.
If trans doesn't want to come off, you missed a bolt somewhere. You shouldn't have to really pry it off, though it does take some effort to separate.
Theres gonna be a lot more clutch dust than you expect if you've never done a clutch before. Good idea to clean block and trans.
10-31-2016, 04:04 PM
#15
11-01-2016, 09:21 AM
#16
Registered User
Flywheel resurfacing is like $35- $50 at Carquest machine shops or other machine/auto shops.
As an ex-owner of a hypersingle clutch set...I would not do a 8LB flywheel on a street driven car.
Use a stock flywheel or something like a 13 or 14LB flywheel. ACT is a good brand. I prefer OEM AP1 for cost reasons. Buy a chromoly flywheel. I wouldn't recommend aluminum.
As an ex-owner of a hypersingle clutch set...I would not do a 8LB flywheel on a street driven car.
Use a stock flywheel or something like a 13 or 14LB flywheel. ACT is a good brand. I prefer OEM AP1 for cost reasons. Buy a chromoly flywheel. I wouldn't recommend aluminum.
11-01-2016, 10:08 AM
#17
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I'm not in love with the riveted on, dissimilar metal friction surface. You're also using clamping force on an aluminum plate with not very much added thickness.
Chromoly is less prone to chattering and is stronger.
I also don't like extremely light flywheels for street use.
With all that, my recommendation was against aluminum .
Chromoly is less prone to chattering and is stronger.
I also don't like extremely light flywheels for street use.
With all that, my recommendation was against aluminum .
11-01-2016, 01:10 PM
#18
You also are going to be spinning the thing at 9k rpms. Don't want it coming apart.
I'm sure everyone with an AL flywheel is gonna chime in that they have xxK miles and haven't had a problem, but its still not something I'd want to chance, not when better alternatives (chromoly) are available.
I'm sure everyone with an AL flywheel is gonna chime in that they have xxK miles and haven't had a problem, but its still not something I'd want to chance, not when better alternatives (chromoly) are available.
11-01-2016, 05:18 PM
#19
Registered User
Chattering has everything to do with the friction material, not what metal the body of the flywheel is made of. The friction surface is typically bolted on (not riveted) and should not see much expansion, unless you are wailing on your clutch in an ungodly fashion. Even then, I just don't see how the dissimilar metals factor would affect performance.
No idea why a flywheel would "come apart" due to it's inertia at 9k RPM, that is not nearly enough force to yield Aluminum... From a quick calc, maximum stress in a 300mm Aluminum flywheel spinning at 9000RPM is 1.4MPa. The yield strength of 6061 Aluminum is 276MPa. In other words, you'd have to spin the flywheel to 128,000RPM to shatter it! VTEC kicks hard, but not that hard.
With that said, I run a 10lb Aluminum flyhwheel in one of my cars and engagement is smooth as butter. I've also worked on many performance cars with Al flywheels and never seen the kinds of issues you guys are alluding to.
Not to derail this thread, but it just makes no sense to me when people throw up these arguments about Aluminum flywheels being somehow dangerous or undesirable.
For those still not convinced and switching to steel, I will buy your lightweight Aluminum flywheel off of you (10lb or less please)! I see a clutch job in my near future.
No idea why a flywheel would "come apart" due to it's inertia at 9k RPM, that is not nearly enough force to yield Aluminum... From a quick calc, maximum stress in a 300mm Aluminum flywheel spinning at 9000RPM is 1.4MPa. The yield strength of 6061 Aluminum is 276MPa. In other words, you'd have to spin the flywheel to 128,000RPM to shatter it! VTEC kicks hard, but not that hard.
With that said, I run a 10lb Aluminum flyhwheel in one of my cars and engagement is smooth as butter. I've also worked on many performance cars with Al flywheels and never seen the kinds of issues you guys are alluding to.
Not to derail this thread, but it just makes no sense to me when people throw up these arguments about Aluminum flywheels being somehow dangerous or undesirable.
For those still not convinced and switching to steel, I will buy your lightweight Aluminum flywheel off of you (10lb or less please)! I see a clutch job in my near future.
11-02-2016, 06:11 AM
#20
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Not "trusting" aluminum was secondary to what I said. And you're right that you'd be hard pressed to break aluminum based PURELY on RPM. But...heat, axial clamp load, and radial load also should be considered. Even so...a well made aluminum flywheel *should* hold up.
What material do OEM's use almost exclusively? And why? Costs associated with chromoly are certainly higher than that of aluminum. So...not cost.
Primarily, though...
I don't like very light flywheels unless I am almost exclusively tracking the car. My Exedy chromoly was 8.X to 9 LB. Based on my experience with 8-9LB flywheels on multiple cars, I recommended a 13-14LB flywheel.
YMMV.
What material do OEM's use almost exclusively? And why? Costs associated with chromoly are certainly higher than that of aluminum. So...not cost.
Primarily, though...
I don't like very light flywheels unless I am almost exclusively tracking the car. My Exedy chromoly was 8.X to 9 LB. Based on my experience with 8-9LB flywheels on multiple cars, I recommended a 13-14LB flywheel.
YMMV.