tags

Hi S2ki,

I have a bit of a problem... my car gets in bad moods. That's the only way to describe it. At times, the car runs perfectly with smooth acceleration, good brake pedal feel, smooth shifting (literally no stiffness or hesitation), and reasonable economy. At other times, the car seems to be down on power, it is difficult to get into gear (especially 1st gear), the brake pedal feels spongy, and the gas mileage is pretty bad.

Here is the story:

2001 with 71,000
-KN fipk II
-Recently had cluth fluid, clutch master cylinder replacement, brake fluid, oem spark plugs, diff fluid (amsoil severe gear), and axle nut tsb performed. All of this made my car feel better all around, but did not prevent bad moods.
-Trans fluid is about 5,000 miles shy of needing changing (oem version II)
-Engine oil at about 5,000 miles (about to change)
-Coolant needs to be changed
-As far as I know, the brake pads and rotors are still from 2001
-Massive clutch buzz
-VTEC transition is smooth and goes to 9k without issue.

When my car is in a bad mood:
-1st is difficult to shift into. I now have a habit of shifting into 3rd and then going into 1st.
-Car seems to be a bit noisier in all ways.
-Power seems down... almost as if there is more rotational mass or the car is heavier. It just feels different. I've also noticed vtec performance is not as impressive.
-Brake pedal needs to travel further to bite. Sometimes I hear a faint squeak (brake pads most likely). Occasionally ABS activates when it really shouldn't (could actually being going from summer to all season tires).
-Getting 200 miles per tank instead of 250
-Can go from a good mood to bad mood after a shut down and restart. For instance, I can drive to the store with my car in a good mood, but then I can return to my apt in a bad mood.
-Resetting ecu does not fix it.

My worst fears:
-Bad ECU
-Brake master cylinder

My potential fixes:
-New pads and rotors
-New precat 02 sensor
-Valve job
-Coolant flush
-Switching engine oil (Seems like anything but Mobile 1 is ok? My car consumes everything with gusto... hence why im hesitant to pay amsoil money if my car will eat it all the same)
-Synthetic trans oil (Mixing Redline MTL and MT90 ok?? That's always been my go-to for other cars)


Sorry... that was a long post. If anyone else has been experiencing bad moods with their s2k I would really appreciate some input! What really throws me off is how episodic the bad moods are. it's just like turning on a light switch, which makes me think it's electronic. Also, are there any other fixes you guys could think of?

Thank you for your help

jbird0007

I have had similar experiences with my00. Although not as severe as altering my gas milage, but there are certianly days where the car feels like it has loads of mid range torque (for an s2000 at least )and it is very precise and it pulls like a bat out of hell getting onto the highway. Then other days (or sometimes in the same day like you said, could be right after a "good" drive) the car feels sluggish, no mid range power, i could accelerate from 20-40 in second gear and the car feels like its pulling a trailer. It seems noisier, softer, and it just feels lame. I still have no idea what causes this.

I did notice once last year I was consistently having a few "bad drives", i garaged the car one night and completely removed the battery, did an oil change, and reinstalled the battery the next morning and went out for a drive and the car felt better than ever for about a day or two

tags

Ahhh that is very interesting. I'm glad I'm not the only one (but sorry that yours does it too!). I think a new battery may also be a good idea since mine is prob less than a year away from dieing. I'll try what you did next month when I swap out the oil.

s2klariat

I'd just start with a basic tune up. Air filter, spark plugs, valve adjustment, and clean the throttle body. I've noticed that the S is sort of tempermental to ambient temps as well. If it's too cold, it doesn't like to shift as smooth. If it's too hot, it's a slug below 6k.

TougeS2k

Thats how mine is, except its not a mood its the temperature... When its super cold things like the ap1 brass synchros are affected, same with all sorts of different running temp things.. IDK about you but i usually only make short trips and rarely have the thing running nice and hott like it should be, but when i do make a trip or it is warmer, problems go away. Maybe thats just my case ::

starchland

lol at the thread title...however its probably the best way to describe it. I can sometimes relate, every honda I have had kinda felt the same. However, if I drive the car hard, it will feel strong. There was another thread where someone was complaining about the S not liking to be babied. I think the ecu does certain adjustments when you are just putting around town which can affect drivability. As far as other issues, just make sure your maintenance is kept up, the weather will also affect how everything feels.

tags

This is making me feel A LOT better. I was really hoping you guys would come on here and tell me it's probably temp/synchro/s2k bizarreness and not something very serious. I really appreciate the feedback.

I think temp could easily have something to do with it, especially since I make a lot of shorter trips. The car may be too cold for the first part of my trip, and then it may have heated up a bit to the point it's a bit heat soaked around town. I'm still a little confused by the mood swings, but I'm thinking that might be what a poster said above about the ECU accomodating stopping and starting and mild driving.

In light of the fact that my ecu may be trying to tone things down... I'm going to check my oil tomorrow morning, let it get nice and warm, and then beat on the car furiously.

Everything posted above makes sense. I'm thinking the brakes may be an unrelated issue. I will report back after my ride to work in vtec.

slipstream444

It's a machine, and moods have nothing to do with it.

Everything you mentioned is related to the condition of your car relative to the temperatures it's experiencing and your driving habits.

The spongy brakes indicate you have air in the system. It was recently serviced... but they may have not removed all of the air. Air is compressible, brake fluid is not. When the car/brake fluid is cold, the brakes may very well feel relatively normal. However, when the brake fluid heats up (even slightly) the air expands and the brakes get much more spongy. Brake fluid needs to be changed out every 1-2 years (depending on your driving conditions and the average relative humidity in your area) due to the fact it absorbs water. That absorbed water also contributes to the spongy feel when it gets hot enough.

1st gear has the smallest forward gear synchro, and that synchro is really not designed to be used for much more than the initial engagement, and the rare downshift to assist in very tight and slow turns. I never use first for motor braking, and rarely find a turn I can't take in 2nd - especially at speed. Rough engagement in first at a stop is usually an indication you're trying to jam it into gear too quickly. In that case, the first gear synchro is trying to take the transmission input shaft (to include the disc) from idle RPM and stop it instantly. The synchro is essentially a very small shaft brake (the conical portion is similar in principle to a very small dynamic/wet clutch) and it's job is to slow down or speed up the input shaft and clutch disc (depending on whether you're upshifting or downshifting) to match the throughput speed of the output shaft based on the gear being selected. Therefore, if you're jamming the shifter into first at a stop, the first gear synchro has to bring the input shaft to a sudden stop. This results in a loud thud and some driveline shudder. If you're revving the engine in neutral with the clutch out - and then quickly push in the clutch and try to jam it into first gear quickly - this only aggravates the problem because now the first gear synchro has to absorb even more energy.
Smoother and slower engagement usually solves most first gear engagement problems - IOW: press in the clutch pedal, WAIT a second or two (this allows the input shaft to start to slow down), and then smoothly put the car into first.

Why is it easier to select another gear prior to placing the shifter in first? That's an easy answer: All the other forward gear synchros are more robust and can more easily stop the input shaft and disc much more easily than the first gear synchro at a stop. The principle is the same for reverse - which has an even smaller synchro. This is a technique that I was shown by my father to reduce wear on the first gear synchro and to manage a tricky reverse gear.

Again, as with your brake fluid, your clutch fluid may not have been serviced properly and might be contributing to the problem.

Power and fuel mileage problems can be an indication of several possible problems and be caused by too many variables to mention. Fuel quality, condition of your spark plugs (you mentioned they were replaced - were they replaced with OEM plugs?), extreme cold (thickening of the oil and other driveline fluids), and other temperature related problems, etc. can all play a part. The biggest variable for fuel mileage is YOU. Small changes in conditions and the way you react to those conditions can have a huge influence on fuel mileage.
Again, power loss can be so many things that it would be hard to post them all. Heat soak, MAP issues, condition of your spark plugs, cheap gas, plugged injectors... Those could be some of the issues.

Most of these problems you typically start to see at the transition of the seasons (hot to cold - cold to hot), so temperature is probably a player. If you've had a couple of warmer days recently and then started to notice the problems or the problems became more pronounced, then this should make more sense.

thomsbrain

Temps make a huge difference in the feel of nearly everything on the S.

But yeah, time for a full tune-up to keep your baby at its best. Plugs, valves, oil, MT oil, diff oil, MAP whack, new pads/rotors/fluid, engine and cabin air filters. If nothing else, the piece of mind that buys will make the car feel 10x better.

erikvanden

I would agree that it sounds like a temperature thing. The car takes a while to warm up as well. If you are that worried I would try changing the fluids. (tranny, diff ect). That and changing out the plugs and cleaning the injectors and throttle body along with the map sensor and IAC valve.

I doubt there is anything wrong with the brakes. When the pads are going you should hear the indicators. When the rotors are going you will feel it when braking. The brakes will not brake nearly as well when they are cold especially with performance pads. That is probably what you are feeling.