vader1

Has anyone attempted to fix this themselves and what was the condition of the spindle nut when you removed the wheel?

I was going to order the new nuts and do this myself because I have classic symptoms of this problem, but when I took the wheel of to just try to tighten them before the new nuts came in, they were staked firmly in place and would not budge. They were plenty tight. Did not want to over torque just to get it to move so I put the wheels back on and think I might take it to a dealer since I have to get my 03 ECU installed and rekeyed.

Also, outside of the noise, is there danger of other damaged caused by what ever the metallic "pop" is when starting or stopping? I saw the old thread where someone claimed differential failure to this, but I am not sure if that is a stretch.

RACER

[QUOTE=vader1,Jul 11 2007, 07:34 AM]I took the wheel of to just try to tighten them before the new nuts came in, they were staked firmly in place and would not budge.

Slows2k

They don't have to be unstaked when loosening with a Pneumatic impact wrench.

s2ka

Does this fix the "pop" I hear sometimes from the rear suspension when going over an expansion joint at around 30mph?

I no longer have the pop in reverse, the dealer did the update which fixed that one.

SenderGreen

I appreciated the info.
I did my axle/spindle nuts myself about a month ago according to the other Service News which dosen't mention greasing the splines. My car only made the click/pop noise twice before I stopped driving it and started reading up. My car made the sound only when shifting at high RPM between 1st and 2nd gear, during the split second between gears. I noticed that on the side that made the sound (drivers only) side on my car I had no trouble getting the nut off by myself. The nut itself was in pristine condition, no oxidation anywhere on the nut. The tips/ends of the splines themselves were pretty clean also. On the passengers side I could not remove the nut by myself. I had to call a nearly 300 lb Swede to bust the passengers side nut loose. Needless to say i'm lucky I don't have half a breaker bar imbedded in my forehead. The passenger side spindle nut, which was the quiet non-slipping side had a perfect ring of mostly greyish oxidation around the face of the nut where it met the tips/ends of the splines. The tips ends of the splines on the passenger side were in about the same condition as the drivers side which had the non-oxidized nut. I still have them both as I replaced them. The new ones were free from Honda of Pasadena Parts Dept. How could you refuse?
At any rate I did grease the nut face (not the thread) on the new nuts with heavy semi-synth grease, which does gush/flow into the tips of splines when the nut is torqued. I'm glad to see Billman250 say not to grease the entire splines. Just from what I saw with the oxdiation on the nuts I would think that removing the hub alone would knock off some oxidation and could actually induce some slippage, let alone adding grease. I notice they are pretty specific calling it a silicone compound. Also now it say's to use motor oil instead of grease on the nut face, and as already mentioned the old 181lb torque spec
So I'm glad I used the Billman250 approved method, but I find the Service News interesting and I'm glad it was posted.
If I had one question I guess it would be: does anyone think they re-revised the 220lb spec back 181lb for a reason? Typo? Could it be squishing a bearing or anything? It dosen't seem like 40lb more would be enough harm anything that massive. It's a little beyond me so if i'm way off please be forgiving.

SpitfireS

SenderGreen Posted on Jul 12 2007, 05:37 AM
The axle nut torque doesn't affect the bearing.
The rear wheel bearing is a (corner-contact) ball roller bearing and doesn't need a pre-load set by the axle nut.
If there is any pre-load it is determined and by the inner bearing races and once they are pressed against eachother a higher torque doesn't make it more.
OIW, if there is any pre-load it is imbedded in the design, and not adjustable.
If you would torque up a bearing like that to 220 lbf/ft (300Nm) in the way that you think you did (by transferring torque via the ball rollers) it would not turn at all and will be damaged severly.



Pink = Axle (and outer CV).
Red = Axle nut.
Yellow = Hub.
Green & Blue = bearing inner races (2 parts)
Black = Bearing outer race (1 part)
Orange = Bearing Roller Balls.
In the drawing there is a gap between the axle and the hub, in reality that gap is smaller but enough to let the torque be transferred via the races to the axle.

When you tighten the axle nut, you press the hub and the 2 inner bearing races together against the axle.
The torque is transferred via the races.

IMHO you're not doing anything wrong by taking the axle out of the hub to clean, inspect and regrease the splines and retorque the axle nut to 220lbf/ft (300 Nm).

LeonGalt

Awesome drawing and explaination, thank you.

So, for those of us that have this clicking, what parts from the drawing are hitting each other? Is anything being damaged or is is it just an annoyance?

Another related question, if the nut is torqued down to either value (180 or 220) and then staked, how is it ever getting loose? Once it is staked I don't see how it can ever move again until you unstake it. Someone mentioned that you could remove a nut without unstaking it if you used an impact wrench, but I wouldn't expect that to work that great. In fact, I used an impact gun to remove mine and it had a very hard time even with it unstaked.

Thanks,
J

SenderGreen

Wow!, thanks for the time and most insightful answer.

vader1

Both nuts were staked, but judging by the amount of wiggle room from where the bent metal was, both could (at least from how they looked) had room to move a bit in one direction either tighter or looser before the staked nut would have stopped their movement. Neither would budge.

Given that they were on so tight and both looked to be in pristine condition, I wondered what was loose enough to make this popping noise. Oh, well. Let the dealer fix it.

LeonGalt

Bump, hoping for some more details as to what parts are actually moving, where the noise is coming from.


J