Mods Without Violating My Warranty
06-11-2003, 02:02 PM
#11
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Originally posted by sfphinkterMC
They went to bat for me cause i'm cool and was patient...and i tip well.
They went to bat for me cause i'm cool and was patient...and i tip well.
Since I would like to get this kind of repoire with my asshole dealer? And who do you tip?
a[e
06-12-2003, 08:50 AM
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sfphinkterMC - I respect your personal experience, but you have to realize and understand that this is NOT the norm for Honda owners... so in a nutshell, if the dog in the corner is known to bite people 9 out of 10 times (and the 1 time he is tame), most people will not approach the dog... my and many other's impressions of Honda dealership service, especially when it comes to warranty service ...
(seems like ace9250 has similar experiences to mine...)
(seems like ace9250 has similar experiences to mine...)
06-12-2003, 11:08 AM
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Going back to what Gernby said, no mod will void your warranty, ever. They have to prove that it caused the failure. If you have a supercharger, and you blow a head gasket (Just another example), there's a 99.9% chance they won't cover it.
And Ricklobo, mcS is right. The dealership gets paid no matter what for warranty work. They would do all they could. IT IS NOT THE DEALERSHIP THAT DENIES THE WARRANTY WORK. If there are aftermarket parts on the car that might be involved in the problem, they contact the district service manager, who is a Honda employee, not an employee of the dealership. HE IS THE ONE TO DENY THE WORK. The dealership could care less. If YOU read the other threads, you'll find that is exactly what people are told by their dealers. Also, a lot of work, regardless of mods, must be approved by the DSM in order to be done, i.e. Taking the engine apart to check for valve damage, or taking the transmission, etc. As I said, go read the other threads you claim to have read. Or talk to your dealership. They do want to get you in and out with as little work as possible, that is true. Thats because Honda only pays them a set amount for the work. so if they do it in less time, they still get paid as much. They take longer, they don't get paid more. But by DENYING to work on your car, do they get paid ANYTHING? No. So now why would they straight up deny it?
Blake
And Ricklobo, mcS is right. The dealership gets paid no matter what for warranty work. They would do all they could. IT IS NOT THE DEALERSHIP THAT DENIES THE WARRANTY WORK. If there are aftermarket parts on the car that might be involved in the problem, they contact the district service manager, who is a Honda employee, not an employee of the dealership. HE IS THE ONE TO DENY THE WORK. The dealership could care less. If YOU read the other threads, you'll find that is exactly what people are told by their dealers. Also, a lot of work, regardless of mods, must be approved by the DSM in order to be done, i.e. Taking the engine apart to check for valve damage, or taking the transmission, etc. As I said, go read the other threads you claim to have read. Or talk to your dealership. They do want to get you in and out with as little work as possible, that is true. Thats because Honda only pays them a set amount for the work. so if they do it in less time, they still get paid as much. They take longer, they don't get paid more. But by DENYING to work on your car, do they get paid ANYTHING? No. So now why would they straight up deny it?
Blake
06-12-2003, 02:26 PM
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infinitebass - you are missing the point of the entire discussion.... and I did not entirely refute all the points previously mentioned by others... read, and re-read if necessary...
and your point, "They have to prove that it caused the failure? " - go find a lawyer friend (or make one) who understands your local (state) warranty laws and you will learn that the burden of proof lies on the owner's shoulders... not the dealership... ever... otherwise, Honda would have to employ a team of a 1000 employees on their payroll to do investigative work...
now back to the original point of the thread (it seems like no one on this board is able to maintain the original topic of threads nowadays)/ My original and yet simple and short point was the following: you are most likely going to have less problems with the dealership (yes, also DSM's, RGM's, and others in that food chain...even honda-paid arbitrators) deciding & performing warranty work and such when a car is "less" modified... the adults at dealerships tend to pick up on the fact that those owners with exhausts, SC, etc. tend to have more "warranty" issues than those who maintain their cars as stock... and simple correlations are made... simple human nature... if I lost you, throw on a CAI, drive through some deep puddles, then bend a piston or two... see what you dealership has to say.
I have other information to share as well if interested, such as:
- the DSM's are, in fact, indirectly paid by the honda dealerships they service (they use credit shares vs. hard money... this is a madatory condition that each Honda dealership owner agrees to when they license (purchase) the right to sell and service Hondas)... and depending on the number of warranty claims serviced and escalated issues, the need for more or less DSM's are determined... and the more claims / issues raised over a period of time drives the number of DSM's per area...
- also, dealerships do, in fact, deny warranty work... all day long... DSM's and others above him/her are part of the escalation process / system that can over-ride or agree on a case-by-case basis...
- also, each dealership has it's monthly "bogey" for warranty work, specifically based on the number of cars it services, cost per service, other anecdotal data, and algorithyms that Honda actuaries create to predict future warranty work (quantity and costs)... depending on where they are against that bogey at a given point in time impacts their attitude... anyone in sales who has had a good month and "sandbags" into the following month understands the implications of making your numbers.
Beyond that, let's call it as 2 people with 2 different opinions...
and your point, "They have to prove that it caused the failure? " - go find a lawyer friend (or make one) who understands your local (state) warranty laws and you will learn that the burden of proof lies on the owner's shoulders... not the dealership... ever... otherwise, Honda would have to employ a team of a 1000 employees on their payroll to do investigative work...
now back to the original point of the thread (it seems like no one on this board is able to maintain the original topic of threads nowadays)/ My original and yet simple and short point was the following: you are most likely going to have less problems with the dealership (yes, also DSM's, RGM's, and others in that food chain...even honda-paid arbitrators) deciding & performing warranty work and such when a car is "less" modified... the adults at dealerships tend to pick up on the fact that those owners with exhausts, SC, etc. tend to have more "warranty" issues than those who maintain their cars as stock... and simple correlations are made... simple human nature... if I lost you, throw on a CAI, drive through some deep puddles, then bend a piston or two... see what you dealership has to say.
I have other information to share as well if interested, such as:
- the DSM's are, in fact, indirectly paid by the honda dealerships they service (they use credit shares vs. hard money... this is a madatory condition that each Honda dealership owner agrees to when they license (purchase) the right to sell and service Hondas)... and depending on the number of warranty claims serviced and escalated issues, the need for more or less DSM's are determined... and the more claims / issues raised over a period of time drives the number of DSM's per area...
- also, dealerships do, in fact, deny warranty work... all day long... DSM's and others above him/her are part of the escalation process / system that can over-ride or agree on a case-by-case basis...
- also, each dealership has it's monthly "bogey" for warranty work, specifically based on the number of cars it services, cost per service, other anecdotal data, and algorithyms that Honda actuaries create to predict future warranty work (quantity and costs)... depending on where they are against that bogey at a given point in time impacts their attitude... anyone in sales who has had a good month and "sandbags" into the following month understands the implications of making your numbers.
Beyond that, let's call it as 2 people with 2 different opinions...
06-12-2003, 03:45 PM
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http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/warranty-faq.htm
I'll find the actual law itself in a bit. As you can see, the burden of proof is actually on the dealer.
Blake
I'll find the actual law itself in a bit. As you can see, the burden of proof is actually on the dealer.
Blake
06-12-2003, 03:52 PM
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06-12-2003, 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by sfphinkterMC
my new service writer looked over car to find anything to do and offered to replace my rear window plastic....yes i had it done for free at 35,000 miles....at their suggstion...i didn't even care!!!!
my new service writer looked over car to find anything to do and offered to replace my rear window plastic....yes i had it done for free at 35,000 miles....at their suggstion...i didn't even care!!!!
06-12-2003, 10:05 PM
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(I didn't realize I'd be getting into this thread so much.... oh well...)
Something you have to remember... everything is always up for interpretation...
a few points:
1. your first post is from a website that is pushing their own products... their wording is not exactly correct and their intent is way off... evident bias...
2. the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act was put in place NOT to give rights to 18 year kids with aftermarket performance-enhancing items, but rather to enable those people who rallied against railroading and monopolizing of OEM brands and products from the manufacturers to not be forced to buy OEM brands... Here's an easy example. You buy Raysbestos brake pads instead of OEM replacements b/c they are cheaper. As it is "reasonably and commerically expected" that those pads work as well and in alignment with the car's original performance with OEM pads, the dealership cannot refute any claims or warranty work related to brake performance. Ditto with getting "aftermarket" hoods or bumpers when getting a car repaired from an accident. Don't confuse "aftermarket parts" with performance-enhancing parts. Getting a FRAM OEM replacement air filter is not the same as getting a CAI... see where I am going ? This law does not give you or me the protection and rights you alude...
3. Remember "the everything is always up for interpretation" bit ? Well, here's a summary. Honda is within their rights to deny any warranty work if they believe (not prove... 2 different things) parts on the automobile may compromise the original design and performance of the car. Honda (and the dealer as their agent) can say that they designed, manufactured, and sell this car to perform within scope of original specifications as sold... meaning, they are within their rights to say that by adding 1 hp (a stretch, I admit), you are compromising the diff / transmission, as those parts were only designed for a 240 hp engine.... or, say.... 17 inch wheels (1 pound heavier per wheel, let's say) compromise the suspension components because the suspension was designed to support the original assembly's weight... see where I'm going ???
Now I applaud some dealerships who are much more flexible than others, and also those people who have received exceptional service for their modified cars... Some dealerships even INDEPENDENTLY warranty and service their cars with aftermarket, performance-enhancing parts such as superchargers (that was sold and installed by that dealership) and such... but they only do so b/c the financial upside is in their favor, not because they have to warranty work b/c of the act or otherwise...
I need to repeat my overall sentiment and opinion... that is, you are most likely going to have less problems with the dealership deciding & performing warranty work and such when a car is "less" modified... The threadstarter wanted some opinions and information and that is what I am providing... people have their opinions...
Something you have to remember... everything is always up for interpretation...
a few points:
1. your first post is from a website that is pushing their own products... their wording is not exactly correct and their intent is way off... evident bias...
2. the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act was put in place NOT to give rights to 18 year kids with aftermarket performance-enhancing items, but rather to enable those people who rallied against railroading and monopolizing of OEM brands and products from the manufacturers to not be forced to buy OEM brands... Here's an easy example. You buy Raysbestos brake pads instead of OEM replacements b/c they are cheaper. As it is "reasonably and commerically expected" that those pads work as well and in alignment with the car's original performance with OEM pads, the dealership cannot refute any claims or warranty work related to brake performance. Ditto with getting "aftermarket" hoods or bumpers when getting a car repaired from an accident. Don't confuse "aftermarket parts" with performance-enhancing parts. Getting a FRAM OEM replacement air filter is not the same as getting a CAI... see where I am going ? This law does not give you or me the protection and rights you alude...
3. Remember "the everything is always up for interpretation" bit ? Well, here's a summary. Honda is within their rights to deny any warranty work if they believe (not prove... 2 different things) parts on the automobile may compromise the original design and performance of the car. Honda (and the dealer as their agent) can say that they designed, manufactured, and sell this car to perform within scope of original specifications as sold... meaning, they are within their rights to say that by adding 1 hp (a stretch, I admit), you are compromising the diff / transmission, as those parts were only designed for a 240 hp engine.... or, say.... 17 inch wheels (1 pound heavier per wheel, let's say) compromise the suspension components because the suspension was designed to support the original assembly's weight... see where I'm going ???
Now I applaud some dealerships who are much more flexible than others, and also those people who have received exceptional service for their modified cars... Some dealerships even INDEPENDENTLY warranty and service their cars with aftermarket, performance-enhancing parts such as superchargers (that was sold and installed by that dealership) and such... but they only do so b/c the financial upside is in their favor, not because they have to warranty work b/c of the act or otherwise...
I need to repeat my overall sentiment and opinion... that is, you are most likely going to have less problems with the dealership deciding & performing warranty work and such when a car is "less" modified... The threadstarter wanted some opinions and information and that is what I am providing... people have their opinions...
06-12-2003, 10:45 PM
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So essentially you're saying all those companies that claim what I originally linked to are lying. Also, you are saying everyone in that other thread is incorrect.
They law states that the burden of proof is on the warranty provider. If I add a CAI, and the head gasket blows, they can't deny my warranty by saying I have a CAI unless they can prove it caused it. Thats fact. Show me someplace that says I'm wrong.
Blake
They law states that the burden of proof is on the warranty provider. If I add a CAI, and the head gasket blows, they can't deny my warranty by saying I have a CAI unless they can prove it caused it. Thats fact. Show me someplace that says I'm wrong.
Blake