Misfiring - Rough Idle - Codes for all Cylinders
05-05-2006, 06:57 AM
#91
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Originally Posted by Random1,May 4 2006, 11:39 PM
The thoughts reguarding the root cause of the problem being upstream from the injectors sounds like the best direction to take. It's hard to believe that Honda did not put a good fuel filter in place for this car. I guess their experience must have dictated it was not necessary. Even if I clean out the tank and put a new sock on the pump I think this problem will likely come back again in the future.
The idea of adding a good filter in the fuel line sounds like a positive thing to do.
The idea of adding a good filter in the fuel line sounds like a positive thing to do.
05-05-2006, 07:03 AM
#92
Registered User
Originally Posted by Random1,May 5 2006, 07:10 AM
There is one more thing besides the sock in the tank acting as a filter. There is a very fine screen basket on the top/entry of each injector. These were replaced as part of the service when I had the original injectors cleaned and flow checked. They were what they were on the used injectors. There was no obvious debris to the eye on these screens. However, I'm not sure if these screens perform near as good as a good in line fuel filter.
Also, the kind of fouling happening to the injectors seems to be a "stickiness" that only occurs when the injectors are operating at the lowest frequency/duty cycle. What ever that is at idle. This indicates the injectors may be fouled with a resin like substance which is typical (off all cars) from what I understand. When doing the original troubleshooting adding injector cleaner made things worse indicating the resin may be getting disolved by the cleaner and making the pintal stick more at idle. This has been reported by others too.
This leads me back to still wanting to try a good in line filter. I'll have to get the injectors cleaned and flow checked in order to prove this out. Fortunately I have two sets now so this is feasible. This looks like it will be a long test potentially, that is to see if an in line filter stops or prolongs the injectors from getting fouled.
I'll still have to consider cleaning out the tank and checking the sock to minimize that potential for a source of contaminent.
Thanks everyone for all the thoughts. For anyone coming in on this now I suggest reading at least the first two pages of this thread if you have not done so already.
Also, the kind of fouling happening to the injectors seems to be a "stickiness" that only occurs when the injectors are operating at the lowest frequency/duty cycle. What ever that is at idle. This indicates the injectors may be fouled with a resin like substance which is typical (off all cars) from what I understand. When doing the original troubleshooting adding injector cleaner made things worse indicating the resin may be getting disolved by the cleaner and making the pintal stick more at idle. This has been reported by others too.
This leads me back to still wanting to try a good in line filter. I'll have to get the injectors cleaned and flow checked in order to prove this out. Fortunately I have two sets now so this is feasible. This looks like it will be a long test potentially, that is to see if an in line filter stops or prolongs the injectors from getting fouled.
I'll still have to consider cleaning out the tank and checking the sock to minimize that potential for a source of contaminent.
Thanks everyone for all the thoughts. For anyone coming in on this now I suggest reading at least the first two pages of this thread if you have not done so already.
05-05-2006, 11:01 AM
#93
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[QUOTE=Wisconsin S2k,May 5 2006, 09:57 AM]thousands of S2000's of all kinds, including heavy boost FI S2k's, run with just the fuel pickup sock with no aftermarket inline filter and have ZERO problems with contaminants.
08-07-2006, 09:49 AM
#94
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Hi, I'm a dealer tech up in Canada and have been dealing with 2 cars with similar problems to the ones mentioned by the original poster. Both came in with p0301,02,03 and 04. After driving, only one code comes up at first (this is actually checked with a scanner attatched while driving) and other codes are essentially caused by the first one.
Once I was able to isolate one cylinder, I figured I had it made. Swapped plugs. Code came back, same cylinder. Swapped coil packs. Code came back, same cylinder. Swapped injectors. Code came back, different cylinder.
Elated to have finally made some headway with a diagnosis, I removed injectors and sent them out to be flow tested. Results of flow testing were perfect. Reinstalled injectors. Code came back, same injector.
Replaced that injector and returned the car to the customer, confident that the problem had to be solved at that point.
Code came back. Still waiting for the customer to bring the car back to me. Similar process with the other car. This was a 2001 model. There is a new part number for the injector, which means that the part has been updated. If the original ones had a short service life, I think we can assume that the change in part will yield a longer service life. I think its most likely that all 4 injectors were on the way out (due to a possible flawed original design) and that replacing one served to highlight the flaws in the other ones. I think my next step is to replace the other 3.
I am assuming that the used injectors that the original poster installed were also quite possibly from the original design with the shortened service life. If it were my car, I'd install a brand new set of injectors and figure that this will cure the problem over the long term.
Once I was able to isolate one cylinder, I figured I had it made. Swapped plugs. Code came back, same cylinder. Swapped coil packs. Code came back, same cylinder. Swapped injectors. Code came back, different cylinder.
Elated to have finally made some headway with a diagnosis, I removed injectors and sent them out to be flow tested. Results of flow testing were perfect. Reinstalled injectors. Code came back, same injector.
Replaced that injector and returned the car to the customer, confident that the problem had to be solved at that point.
Code came back. Still waiting for the customer to bring the car back to me. Similar process with the other car. This was a 2001 model. There is a new part number for the injector, which means that the part has been updated. If the original ones had a short service life, I think we can assume that the change in part will yield a longer service life. I think its most likely that all 4 injectors were on the way out (due to a possible flawed original design) and that replacing one served to highlight the flaws in the other ones. I think my next step is to replace the other 3.
I am assuming that the used injectors that the original poster installed were also quite possibly from the original design with the shortened service life. If it were my car, I'd install a brand new set of injectors and figure that this will cure the problem over the long term.
08-07-2006, 11:04 AM
#95
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I posted earlier in the thread that I thought I had my CEL misfire problem fixed. It turns out that it came back in a few months, and pulling the fuse only clears the CEL for a short while.
Can anyone suggest if I can take this in to be fixed under Hondacare Extended Warranty? The warranty is tricky, because if Hondacare decides not to cover it, my dealer would charge me $160 for the "inspection fee".
Can anyone suggest if I can take this in to be fixed under Hondacare Extended Warranty? The warranty is tricky, because if Hondacare decides not to cover it, my dealer would charge me $160 for the "inspection fee".
08-07-2006, 11:25 AM
#96
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[QUOTE=VTR_Gary,Aug 7 2006, 10:49 AM]Hi, I'm a dealer tech up in Canada and have been dealing with 2 cars with similar problems to the ones mentioned by the original poster.
08-07-2006, 04:55 PM
#97
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Earlier in this thread I posted about a similar problem. My Honda dealer replaced all 4 injectors. CEL went away and now, 8 months later, everything is still great! Honda covered the cost of the replacement injectors, so I got the impression that this was a problem that they were aware of and maybe the new part number fixes it.
Good luck.
Good luck.
08-07-2006, 08:18 PM
#98
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Originally Posted by Geo02S2k,Aug 7 2006, 04:55 PM
Earlier in this thread I posted about a similar problem. My Honda dealer replaced all 4 injectors. CEL went away and now, 8 months later, everything is still great! Honda covered the cost of the replacement injectors, so I got the impression that this was a problem that they were aware of and maybe the new part number fixes it.
Good luck.
Good luck.
08-08-2006, 07:47 PM
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They had already tried swapping the coils, inspecting the valves and valve clearance, and swapping the spark plugs around. On my third return visit to the dealership, they finally moved to the fuel injectors. The service manager contacted regional and got approval to replace the injectors on Honda. (They did send the old injectors back to Honda.)
This could have been because of previous history with this dealer (had a transmission replaced on our Odyssey too), or because I'd had it in for the third time with the same problem. But the short answer is that I didn't have to pay for the injector replacement.
This could have been because of previous history with this dealer (had a transmission replaced on our Odyssey too), or because I'd had it in for the third time with the same problem. But the short answer is that I didn't have to pay for the injector replacement.
