Mechanics and knowledgeable people
12-10-2009, 12:31 PM
#1
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Mechanics and knowledgeable people
Hey guys,
Well the story all starts when I bought my car about 3 years ago. When I was looking at the car at the dealership, the salesman/owner had told me that the car had a check engine light because the air intake system was not intact. The air box cover was off. I thought that was a little strange, but continued to have a pre-purchase inspection at a local Canadian Tire. Not sure if they are in US, but it is a large company. Anyways the salesman dropped the car off at Canadian Tire for my appointment. The car went through inspection. The car was then picked up by the salesman and brought back to the dealership. I went to Canadian Tire to speak to the mechanic who did the inspection and he said everything was fine and said nothing about the misfire all cylinders except that it had been redlined and it is fine. The work order states that there “was a misfire all cylinders, Redlined”. “Checked out at this time”.
I continued to the dealership and completed all the paperwork. As I was driving out in my new car I noticed the CEL was still on. So I went into the dealership and asked what was going on and he continued to tell me it was because of the air box not being complete and that’s what Canadian Tire told him. So being the stupid trusting person I am. I left thinking it was only the air box problem. About 1500km down the road the engine dies on the highway... Bring it to the local Honda dealer to see what was wrong. A spark blew out and fell into the cylinder scoring the sides of the cylinder walls. Long story short I wound up paying nearly 8000$ for a new engine and install. I know should have not trusted them and had Canadian tire figure out what was wrong so please don’t post that I made a stupid mistake, because I know that.
I have taken this case to small claims court trying to get some money that I had to put in to fix my car. What I am hoping to get from this thread is some replies stating what the Shop should have done seeing that code on my car. If I would have known then what I know now I would have pulled all the plugs first to make sure they were in OK condition and torque to specs. Both parties, salesman and Canadian Tire are pointing fingers at each other saying the other is to blame. I feel they are both blame, but admit I should have not been so trusting.
Please post what should have been done when this code was pulled up and PLEASE STATE IF YOU ARE A LICENCED MECHANIC since this may help me with my case. I will be printing this thread off and bringing it to court in hoping to use it to show the judge what SHOULD have happened, so any help would be appreciated.
Sorry for the long story,
Thanks in advance guys,
----------chad--------------
Well the story all starts when I bought my car about 3 years ago. When I was looking at the car at the dealership, the salesman/owner had told me that the car had a check engine light because the air intake system was not intact. The air box cover was off. I thought that was a little strange, but continued to have a pre-purchase inspection at a local Canadian Tire. Not sure if they are in US, but it is a large company. Anyways the salesman dropped the car off at Canadian Tire for my appointment. The car went through inspection. The car was then picked up by the salesman and brought back to the dealership. I went to Canadian Tire to speak to the mechanic who did the inspection and he said everything was fine and said nothing about the misfire all cylinders except that it had been redlined and it is fine. The work order states that there “was a misfire all cylinders, Redlined”. “Checked out at this time”.
I continued to the dealership and completed all the paperwork. As I was driving out in my new car I noticed the CEL was still on. So I went into the dealership and asked what was going on and he continued to tell me it was because of the air box not being complete and that’s what Canadian Tire told him. So being the stupid trusting person I am. I left thinking it was only the air box problem. About 1500km down the road the engine dies on the highway... Bring it to the local Honda dealer to see what was wrong. A spark blew out and fell into the cylinder scoring the sides of the cylinder walls. Long story short I wound up paying nearly 8000$ for a new engine and install. I know should have not trusted them and had Canadian tire figure out what was wrong so please don’t post that I made a stupid mistake, because I know that.
I have taken this case to small claims court trying to get some money that I had to put in to fix my car. What I am hoping to get from this thread is some replies stating what the Shop should have done seeing that code on my car. If I would have known then what I know now I would have pulled all the plugs first to make sure they were in OK condition and torque to specs. Both parties, salesman and Canadian Tire are pointing fingers at each other saying the other is to blame. I feel they are both blame, but admit I should have not been so trusting.
Please post what should have been done when this code was pulled up and PLEASE STATE IF YOU ARE A LICENCED MECHANIC since this may help me with my case. I will be printing this thread off and bringing it to court in hoping to use it to show the judge what SHOULD have happened, so any help would be appreciated.
Sorry for the long story,
Thanks in advance guys,
----------chad--------------
12-10-2009, 12:56 PM
#3
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They pulled the code at inspection.(misfire on all cylinders). Said it was from being redlined and it is fine. The delaer told me that Candian Tire told him it was from the airbox not being complete and it is fine. I was trusting. 
12-10-2009, 03:02 PM
#6
being that i'm a full time auto tech i will voice my opinion.
a missing airbox piece would NOT cause a miss in the engine. if they pulled up miss codes p0300, p0301, p0302, p0303, p0304 then they should have looked into the ignition/fuel system of that cylinder. if nothing was found they should have checked compression and what not.
it seems they were 100% negligent when it came to fixing your car, what is worse is the other place just told you its okay cause "canadian TIRE" said it was.
good luck man, you do have a case here. they should have AT LEAST pulled the coils and plugs.
EDIT: just read you paid to have a pre-purchase inspection done and that is when they saw the MIL light and miss codes. WOW, they are 100% at fault here.
a missing airbox piece would NOT cause a miss in the engine. if they pulled up miss codes p0300, p0301, p0302, p0303, p0304 then they should have looked into the ignition/fuel system of that cylinder. if nothing was found they should have checked compression and what not.
it seems they were 100% negligent when it came to fixing your car, what is worse is the other place just told you its okay cause "canadian TIRE" said it was.
good luck man, you do have a case here. they should have AT LEAST pulled the coils and plugs.
EDIT: just read you paid to have a pre-purchase inspection done and that is when they saw the MIL light and miss codes. WOW, they are 100% at fault here.
12-10-2009, 03:16 PM
#7
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I am not a licenced mechanic, but I have had my airbox cover off and have never gotten a CEL. The fact that they said it was b/c of the airbox cover is either an ignorant statement or a downright lie. You're depending on a professional assessment, frankly, you didn't get it.In addition, a CEL should tell you that there is definitely a problem with the car. If you had bought the car from the US and gotten CT to inspect the vehicle I think it surely would've failed b/c of the CEL. Alos, did CT not check the spark plugs when they performed the inspection? If they did, they should've seen something was amiss.
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12-10-2009, 04:38 PM
#9
I say that you will most likely win your case, small claims court is not that difficult to prove your case, the dealer that sold you the car will most likely be found responsible for this IMO. I'm not a mechanic to give you an opinion but I've spent more time in small claims court than most lawyers. Pulling off a sheet from the internet will do nothing for you. Getting a sworn affidavit from a licensed mechanic will help you though, if you have to pay for one it is worth it's weight in court.
How did the car pass emmissions ? , that is a requirement of the sale, did the vehicle pass emmissions testing ?.
Dealer did not act in good faith, as they lied to you about the CEL. They had a standard of care when selling the car to you, and IMO they did not fullfill their obligations in fullfiilling that standard of care. They were in a position to know what was wrong with the car, you weren't, so you had to take their word on the CEL issue. You relied on their opinion and they did not do enough to support the vehicle report given to you.
If you have information to support the CEL being cylinder misfiring that would help to prove that the CEL was not related to the airbox theory.
You should try to find an expert who can attend the court with you, or at the very least give you a sworn affidavit of their opinion. Whatever it costs it will be worth it. You will get a few bucks for court costs if you win, not very much, but a bit to cover your expenses, so get as much information as you can. Do not rely on internet statements to defend your ass, they are totally useless and about as reliable as heresay.
Key words to support your case - The dealer had the standard of care, they had the duty of care to obtain the necessary information that you did not have access to. You relied on their expert opinion. They misrepresented the vehicle CEL stating with complete authority that it was an airbox malfunction. They are liable for letting you drive the vehicle away with malfunctioning spark plugs, and it was driven with the defect even before you purchased the vehicle. The vehicle was represented as being in driveable safe condition when it as sold to you, and it turns out that it was not in that condition.
good luck. Court cases such as this depend on what judge shows up the day of the trial, it's a crap shoot but one that you should win IMO, if you do things right. Prepare some questions to ask the defendants, so you can prove your case if you get a chance to question them on the stand.
Good luck.
How did the car pass emmissions ? , that is a requirement of the sale, did the vehicle pass emmissions testing ?.
Dealer did not act in good faith, as they lied to you about the CEL. They had a standard of care when selling the car to you, and IMO they did not fullfill their obligations in fullfiilling that standard of care. They were in a position to know what was wrong with the car, you weren't, so you had to take their word on the CEL issue. You relied on their opinion and they did not do enough to support the vehicle report given to you.
If you have information to support the CEL being cylinder misfiring that would help to prove that the CEL was not related to the airbox theory.
You should try to find an expert who can attend the court with you, or at the very least give you a sworn affidavit of their opinion. Whatever it costs it will be worth it. You will get a few bucks for court costs if you win, not very much, but a bit to cover your expenses, so get as much information as you can. Do not rely on internet statements to defend your ass, they are totally useless and about as reliable as heresay.
Key words to support your case - The dealer had the standard of care, they had the duty of care to obtain the necessary information that you did not have access to. You relied on their expert opinion. They misrepresented the vehicle CEL stating with complete authority that it was an airbox malfunction. They are liable for letting you drive the vehicle away with malfunctioning spark plugs, and it was driven with the defect even before you purchased the vehicle. The vehicle was represented as being in driveable safe condition when it as sold to you, and it turns out that it was not in that condition.
good luck. Court cases such as this depend on what judge shows up the day of the trial, it's a crap shoot but one that you should win IMO, if you do things right. Prepare some questions to ask the defendants, so you can prove your case if you get a chance to question them on the stand.
Good luck.
12-10-2009, 04:57 PM
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^^^Yah, thanks... I figure anything that I can help in my favor is a plus to bring to this case... I know a couple good mechanics that I will also ask about this question. Thanks for reading guys and as I say.. Keep them coming... I think everything helps..