LSD question
05-20-2007, 01:29 PM
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LSD question
Ok so we just bought a used 00' 3wks ago and it was raining so the pavement was wet. I said to my wife to do a simple doughnut to feel the cars limit so she knows when the car would slip and do a burn out. She floored it a little but came a slight ticking/clunking noise, not to loud just enought to ?? myself. Car has 90k miles and its all stock w/yoko's. Is it cause its viscous and not clutch?? And whats the good/cost efficient clutch LSD out there?? 
Thanks guys
Thanks guys
05-20-2007, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by vspc2nr,May 20 2007, 04:29 PM
Ok so we just bought a used 00' 3wks ago and it was raining so the pavement was wet. I said to my wife to do a simple doughnut to feel the cars limit so she knows when the car would slip and do a burn out. She floored it a little but came a slight ticking/clunking noise, not to loud just enought to ?? myself. Car has 90k miles and its all stock w/yoko's. Is it cause its viscous and not clutch?? And whats the good/cost efficient clutch LSD out there??
Thanks guys
Thanks guys
Is the car still making the noise now (in normal driving)?
05-21-2007, 12:51 AM
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Try making slow tight turns (figure 8) on an empty parking lot with a warm diff.
Be easy on the throttle, don't break traction.
There may be some humming or growling (Grrrooowwwlll
) but there should be no clicking!
If you have no service history for the car: time to change diff oil (maybe all oils + OEM oil filter)
Watch for metal shavings on the magnetic drain plug.
Watch for metal stuff in the oil.
Refill with what your owners manual recommends
Be easy on the throttle, don't break traction.
There may be some humming or growling (Grrrooowwwlll
) but there should be no clicking!If you have no service history for the car: time to change diff oil (maybe all oils + OEM oil filter)
Watch for metal shavings on the magnetic drain plug.
Watch for metal stuff in the oil.
Refill with what your owners manual recommends
05-21-2007, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SpitfireS,May 21 2007, 03:51 AM
Try making slow tight turns (figure 8) on an empty parking lot with a warm diff.
Be easy on the throttle, don't break traction.
There may be some humming or growling (Grrrooowwwlll ) but there should be no clicking!
If you have no service history for the car: time to change diff oil (maybe all oils + OEM oil filter)
Watch for metal shavings on the magnetic drain plug.
Watch for metal stuff in the oil.
Refill with what your owners manual recommends
Be easy on the throttle, don't break traction.
There may be some humming or growling (Grrrooowwwlll
) but there should be no clicking!If you have no service history for the car: time to change diff oil (maybe all oils + OEM oil filter)
Watch for metal shavings on the magnetic drain plug.
Watch for metal stuff in the oil.
Refill with what your owners manual recommends
Is it the clutch assist in the S2000 that makes the noises? I've never heard any noise from the stock diff as far as I know, and I don't recall ever hearing a Torsen make any noise. I'm probably just never done the right exercise to make it happen, so I want to know more about it. Is it related to the S2000 type Torsen or do they all do it? What produces the noise?I guess you know how noisy the KAAZ can be.
05-21-2007, 01:02 PM
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lol my bad, i have a 87' FC and got so use to saying viscous LSD. No it doesn't make any noises when doing figure 8's(wife drove it when we bought it to learn and feel the car in a industrial parking lot). Only this one day it happend. He had a new cluch installed @ Honda service center before we bought it. Manual say at 150K to change the fluid, but since i dont know the full history i should get it change anyways, right?? Anything else i should do at the time being?? Im going to buy the fluid myself and change it, also i was planning to drop the oilpan to inspect/see inside for any sludge and stuff, basically to see the internals. Thanks guys/galz.
05-21-2007, 01:59 PM
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RED MX5 Posted on May 21 2007, 08:52 PM
When you're making full lock steering turns with some throttle you are "sending" some torque through the diff with a lot of speed difference between left & right wheel.
It is the torque going through the diff combined with the difference in rotation between the 2 rear wheels (=side gears) that create the "locking" force by pushing the side gears towards each other or apart against the housing.
Torsen = Torque Sensing
The speed difference makes the Torsen want to lock up but the tire grip won't allow it.
It is this "conflict" that produces noise.
My diff makes a slight grumble when I make slow tight turns, at parking lots, driving out of my garage (cold), etc. and I've seen others posting about it too.
Driving straight, there is very little (or no) speed difference between left & right = almost no "locking force" = no noise.
[QUOTE]I guess you know how noisy the KAAZ can be.
Is it the clutch assist in the S2000 that makes the noises? I've never heard any noise from the stock diff as far as I know, and I don't recall ever hearing a Torsen make any noise. I'm probably just never done the right exercise to make it happen, so I want to know more about it. Is it related to the S2000 type Torsen or do they all do it? What produces the noise?
It is the torque going through the diff combined with the difference in rotation between the 2 rear wheels (=side gears) that create the "locking" force by pushing the side gears towards each other or apart against the housing.
Torsen = Torque Sensing
The speed difference makes the Torsen want to lock up but the tire grip won't allow it.
It is this "conflict" that produces noise.
My diff makes a slight grumble when I make slow tight turns, at parking lots, driving out of my garage (cold), etc. and I've seen others posting about it too.
Driving straight, there is very little (or no) speed difference between left & right = almost no "locking force" = no noise.
[QUOTE]I guess you know how noisy the KAAZ can be.
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05-21-2007, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SpitfireS,May 21 2007, 04:59 PM
RED MX5 Posted on May 21 2007, 08:52 PM
When you're making full lock steering turns with some throttle you are "sending" some torque through the diff with a lot of speed difference between left & right wheel.
It is the torque going through the diff combined with the difference in rotation between the 2 rear wheels (=side gears) that create the "locking" force by pushing the side gears towards each other or apart against the housing.
Torsen = Torque Sensing
The speed difference makes the Torsen want to lock up but the tire grip won't allow it.
It is this "conflict" that produces noise.
My diff makes a slight grumble when I make slow tight turns, at parking lots, driving out of my garage (cold), etc. and I've seen others posting about it too.
Driving straight, there is very little (or no) speed difference between left & right = almost no "locking force" = no noise.
No I don't, never seen one, never driven in a car with one
But I can imagine the spring loaded clutch disks producing a simular noise under those conditions (max speed difference between left & right)
vspc2nr Posted on May 21 2007, 10:02 PM
Check your manual more carefull, IMO 150000 miles on 1 fill of diff oil is kinda scary.
My manual states to change it every 40000 km (25000 miles).
It only takes 1 quart and it won't hurt to change it a little more frequent if you track the car or drive at high speeds frequently IMO.
I recommend to use what Honda recommends
But who am I to do so.....
Read the stickies on top of UTH for a LOT of info about any kind of maintenance
Have FUN with your S2000
When you're making full lock steering turns with some throttle you are "sending" some torque through the diff with a lot of speed difference between left & right wheel.
It is the torque going through the diff combined with the difference in rotation between the 2 rear wheels (=side gears) that create the "locking" force by pushing the side gears towards each other or apart against the housing.
Torsen = Torque Sensing
The speed difference makes the Torsen want to lock up but the tire grip won't allow it.
It is this "conflict" that produces noise.
My diff makes a slight grumble when I make slow tight turns, at parking lots, driving out of my garage (cold), etc. and I've seen others posting about it too.
Driving straight, there is very little (or no) speed difference between left & right = almost no "locking force" = no noise.
No I don't, never seen one, never driven in a car with one
But I can imagine the spring loaded clutch disks producing a simular noise under those conditions (max speed difference between left & right)
vspc2nr Posted on May 21 2007, 10:02 PM
Check your manual more carefull, IMO 150000 miles on 1 fill of diff oil is kinda scary.
My manual states to change it every 40000 km (25000 miles).
It only takes 1 quart and it won't hurt to change it a little more frequent if you track the car or drive at high speeds frequently IMO.
I recommend to use what Honda recommends
But who am I to do so.....
Read the stickies on top of UTH for a LOT of info about any kind of maintenance
Have FUN with your S2000
Riddle me that.
05-21-2007, 03:30 PM
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SpitfireS, a full clutch type LSD like the KAAZ have been known lock and unlock quickly enough to sheer the teeth off the ring and pinion. I haven't seen it first hand, but I've seen pictures, and I know how nasty my KAAZ can be if I don't use some of that finesse I blabber about all the time, so I'm sure the clutches can lock up hard enough to break things. They will chatter in tight turns like you describe anytime you accelerate at all, but only after there is several thousand miles on the diff oil. I change the diff oil when I change the engine oil (LOL, it's not like the diff oil change was a big expense ) and my KAAZ never makes any noise once warmed up.
Cold it's another story, and it's the cold performance that can be so harsh as to break things. Of course since I always have pretty fresh diff oil and have learned to do all my accelerating in a straight line until the diff warms up, I never see get any chatter.
Anyway, if it's the clutch assist in the Torsen you're hearing I'll bet it goes away with a fresh load of oil. If not, a touch of friction modifier in the diff might smooth out the clutch action and stop the noise. LOL, not that it's a problem, but you know who some people are about things that go bump in the night.
) and my KAAZ never makes any noise once warmed up.Cold it's another story, and it's the cold performance that can be so harsh as to break things. Of course since I always have pretty fresh diff oil and have learned to do all my accelerating in a straight line until the diff warms up, I never see get any chatter.
Anyway, if it's the clutch assist in the Torsen you're hearing I'll bet it goes away with a fresh load of oil. If not, a touch of friction modifier in the diff might smooth out the clutch action and stop the noise. LOL, not that it's a problem, but you know who some people are about things that go bump in the night.
05-21-2007, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RED MX5,May 21 2007, 03:22 PM
Before I go shooting off my mouth and making a fool out of myself I want to make sure I understand one thing. You said that your diff made a noise, but have you ever heard noise from a properly operating Torsen that didn't have the clutch assist?
Riddle me that.
Riddle me that.
ok, last is your talking about KAZZ diff's. are you using it for track/street?? I 'm thinking about getting one(clutch type) cause i want to have sum fun sliding