LOTS of air in the brake lines
09-14-2009, 10:01 PM
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LOTS of air in the brake lines
Hey guys,
I'm leaving to head up to the North Carolina on Wednesday night for Dragon Ball Run 2009. I decided to take apart the calipers this weekend.... give them an overhaul, install new pads, bleed the lines, etc.
I had all four calipers off of the car and the banjo bolts were just slowly dripping into bowls. I was keeping an eye on the reservoir to make sure the fluid didn't get too low. So while I'm cleaning the calipers my 4 year old nephew decided to hop in my car and play around for a minute. I didn't think anything of it until I heard a sucking sound and realized that he was pushing the brake pedal!
The reservoir is empty and I'm afraid he may have emptied most of the fluid out of the lines, if not all of it. I don't think I can simply add more fluid and bleed at this point. What do I need to do? Wont the master cylinder be empty as well? I need this taken car of so I can leave Wednesday night. Should I just have it towed to a shop and have them pressurize the fluid into the lines? Will this ensure that all of the air gets out, even the air that may have gotten into the master cylinder?
I'm leaving to head up to the North Carolina on Wednesday night for Dragon Ball Run 2009. I decided to take apart the calipers this weekend.... give them an overhaul, install new pads, bleed the lines, etc.
I had all four calipers off of the car and the banjo bolts were just slowly dripping into bowls. I was keeping an eye on the reservoir to make sure the fluid didn't get too low. So while I'm cleaning the calipers my 4 year old nephew decided to hop in my car and play around for a minute. I didn't think anything of it until I heard a sucking sound and realized that he was pushing the brake pedal!
The reservoir is empty and I'm afraid he may have emptied most of the fluid out of the lines, if not all of it. I don't think I can simply add more fluid and bleed at this point. What do I need to do? Wont the master cylinder be empty as well? I need this taken car of so I can leave Wednesday night. Should I just have it towed to a shop and have them pressurize the fluid into the lines? Will this ensure that all of the air gets out, even the air that may have gotten into the master cylinder?
Just a suggestion: Could u fill up the MC, bleed it at the abs and then bleed the brakes?
09-14-2009, 11:36 PM
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I got the following reply on "yahoo answers". Can someone add a bit more detail to this and/or verify if this procedure will work? Will I need to do more than this? I plan on using the correct bleeding order for the calipers rather than the order he suggests:
"The ABS Pump is something you probably cant bleed easily on the car. I use a scan tool to run the ABS pump through all of its functions while I pressure bleed the whole brake system. You most likely do not have a pressure brake bleeder or a scan tool to do such a procedure.
I recommend you try doing it the old fashion way and have someone (age 8 or older) to help you. It will take a little bit of time but its worth a try.
Keep brake reservoir filled to the brim during bleeding, going dry means starting all over.
Have your assistant pump the brakes several times and then hold the brake pedal down firmly.
Tap on the ABS pump to dislodge some of the trapped air bubbles
Start at the right rear wheel. Open the bleeder just a second and close it immediately. Brake fluid and air should have squirted out and the brake pedal should have dropped to the the floor.
Have the assistant slowly return the brake pedal to the released position, and again pump and hold. Repeat the procedure 3 times for each wheel.
Right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front.
Now check how the brakes feel. If they feel spongy, then you still have air in the system. If the master cylinder has a bleeder bolt on it then bleed that too in the same manner. If the master cylinder is not equipped with a bleeder bolt, then it can still be bled by loosening the brake lines attached to it. The ABS pump can also be bled in this manner by loosening and tightening the lines to the pump one by one as if they were bleeder bolts.
One other trick to getting the last bits of air out of the ABS pump is to do an ABS stop. It can be a little dangerous, especially on a car with sub-par brakes. Run the car up to 35 mph and slam on the brakes... ABS should kick in and the vehicle should chirp, grumble, and chatter to a stop. Be careful. or just take it to a mechanic."
I recommend you try doing it the old fashion way and have someone (age 8 or older) to help you. It will take a little bit of time but its worth a try.
Keep brake reservoir filled to the brim during bleeding, going dry means starting all over.
Have your assistant pump the brakes several times and then hold the brake pedal down firmly.
Tap on the ABS pump to dislodge some of the trapped air bubbles
Start at the right rear wheel. Open the bleeder just a second and close it immediately. Brake fluid and air should have squirted out and the brake pedal should have dropped to the the floor.
Have the assistant slowly return the brake pedal to the released position, and again pump and hold. Repeat the procedure 3 times for each wheel.
Right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front.
Now check how the brakes feel. If they feel spongy, then you still have air in the system. If the master cylinder has a bleeder bolt on it then bleed that too in the same manner. If the master cylinder is not equipped with a bleeder bolt, then it can still be bled by loosening the brake lines attached to it. The ABS pump can also be bled in this manner by loosening and tightening the lines to the pump one by one as if they were bleeder bolts.
One other trick to getting the last bits of air out of the ABS pump is to do an ABS stop. It can be a little dangerous, especially on a car with sub-par brakes. Run the car up to 35 mph and slam on the brakes... ABS should kick in and the vehicle should chirp, grumble, and chatter to a stop. Be careful. or just take it to a mechanic."
09-15-2009, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by nissanfanatic,Sep 15 2009, 03:55 AM
I ended up just taking the car out and engaging the ABS. After that, I bled the brakes again, and they were good.
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09-15-2009, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SheDrivesIt,Sep 15 2009, 10:11 AM
PM Slows2k or Billman. BUMP for a guy who really needs good advice fast.
09-15-2009, 02:58 PM
#10
Bleed the whole system not hard but you need two people with out speed bleeders or a pressurized system.
With the car off start with the caliper furthest from the reservoir, Depress the pedal leave it down, crack the bleeder, close it, lift up on the pedal, depress, open the bleeder, repeat bleed until no air comes out, 2nd closest, bleed, 3rd, so on, then I am not sure if the MC has a bleeder or not but do that last. just be sure to watch the MC fluid height, if you let it run dry you should start over... you can open the bleeder while pushing the pedal down but don't ever let it come up with the bleeder open. Some calipers create an air pocket that can be a pain to bleed out. What I usually do is take a syringe of brake fluid and fill it through the banjo bolt moving it around to get it as full as possible before putting it in the car. messy but works to get those pesky pockets that some calipers have.
Bed the pads in and you should be good to go.
Done this tons of times on 'vettes, TAs, Mudstains, and STis, with no issues.
With the car off start with the caliper furthest from the reservoir, Depress the pedal leave it down, crack the bleeder, close it, lift up on the pedal, depress, open the bleeder, repeat bleed until no air comes out, 2nd closest, bleed, 3rd, so on, then I am not sure if the MC has a bleeder or not but do that last. just be sure to watch the MC fluid height, if you let it run dry you should start over... you can open the bleeder while pushing the pedal down but don't ever let it come up with the bleeder open. Some calipers create an air pocket that can be a pain to bleed out. What I usually do is take a syringe of brake fluid and fill it through the banjo bolt moving it around to get it as full as possible before putting it in the car. messy but works to get those pesky pockets that some calipers have.
Bed the pads in and you should be good to go.
Done this tons of times on 'vettes, TAs, Mudstains, and STis, with no issues.