Locked out of 5th gear--what could the problem be?
04-16-2007, 04:57 AM
#41
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always try to rev match on down shifting, especially from high rpm.
And don't listen to those people who say otherwise, because I know for sure they've read somewhere something about you don't need to rev match because on modern car has syncros that does the rev matching for you, blah blah blah, but whenever you don't rev match, you're wearing your syncromesh out.
don't skip upshifting, I know it's close ratio gears, but don't. Downshifting, always try to rev match, and it doesn't have to be perfect as long as you're helping the syncros to get there easier.
And don't listen to those people who say otherwise, because I know for sure they've read somewhere something about you don't need to rev match because on modern car has syncros that does the rev matching for you, blah blah blah, but whenever you don't rev match, you're wearing your syncromesh out.
don't skip upshifting, I know it's close ratio gears, but don't. Downshifting, always try to rev match, and it doesn't have to be perfect as long as you're helping the syncros to get there easier.
04-16-2007, 01:27 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by plokivos,Apr 16 2007, 07:57 AM
always try to rev match on down shifting, especially from high rpm.
And don't listen to those people who say otherwise, because I know for sure they've read somewhere something about you don't need to rev match because on modern car has syncros that does the rev matching for you, blah blah blah, but whenever you don't rev match, you're wearing your syncromesh out.
don't skip upshifting, I know it's close ratio gears, but don't. Downshifting, always try to rev match, and it doesn't have to be perfect as long as you're helping the syncros to get there easier.
And don't listen to those people who say otherwise, because I know for sure they've read somewhere something about you don't need to rev match because on modern car has syncros that does the rev matching for you, blah blah blah, but whenever you don't rev match, you're wearing your syncromesh out.
don't skip upshifting, I know it's close ratio gears, but don't. Downshifting, always try to rev match, and it doesn't have to be perfect as long as you're helping the syncros to get there easier.
When downshifting there are only two ways to minimize forward weight transfer as the clutch is released. Either the clutch can be released slowly and allowed to slip, or the driver can rev match the engine to the transmission as the clutch engages. The latter is the only way to get anywhere close to zero weight transfer during a shift. IOW, rev matching is about minimizing the loadings on the driveline and minimizing weight transfer.
Rev matching on upshifts takes place without any driver intervention, because the engine slows down all by itself.
Double-de-clutching is something entirely different. This is the technique that matches the flywheel speed to the transmissions input shaft speed and uses the engine and clutch to do the work of the synchros. Anyone who isn't clear on that probably shouldn't be offering up shifting advice either.
Double-de-clutching can be used during upshifting or downshifting to minimize the work the synchros have to do. It's one of several ways to avoid overworking the synchros during skip shifting or any other shifting, and it's probably the hardest one to master, so it's better for most drivers to simply row the shifer through the gears, even if they don't fully engage each gear and release the clutch. Just let each synchro do the job for which it was intended and handle the shifter with a light touch and you'll be far less likely to bugger up the synchros.
Again, rev matching during a downshift doesn't help the synchros in any way. The engine speed can't be used to match the transmisison speed to the flywheel speed (which is what the synchros do) unless the transmission is being driven by the flywheel and the gearbox is in neurtal (as when the clutch is out in the middle of a double-de-clutch (AKA "double clutch").
I'd be careful about getting shifting advice from anyone who doesn't know the basics.
04-18-2007, 05:32 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by plokivos,Apr 18 2007, 02:18 PM
it's easier to toe and heel at the track than real life.
The harder I'm breaking the easier it is. Same with you?
04-23-2007, 05:28 AM
#47
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eh, I think it's the brake pressure but mostly it's the sequence of how fast you heel versus when you brake that makes it easier.
i think as long as my rhythm is on, it's relatively easy to double clutch toe and heel and rev it just right.
for some reason on s2000, the toe and heel is gentle tap above 3rd gear and you have to tap the accelerate hider/higher RPM on the 2nd for some reason. Gearing is a bit off.
my gf hates it when I drive the car like at the track in normal road. She thinks I shift too much and do too much with my legs. lol
i think as long as my rhythm is on, it's relatively easy to double clutch toe and heel and rev it just right.
for some reason on s2000, the toe and heel is gentle tap above 3rd gear and you have to tap the accelerate hider/higher RPM on the 2nd for some reason. Gearing is a bit off.
my gf hates it when I drive the car like at the track in normal road. She thinks I shift too much and do too much with my legs. lol
04-23-2007, 02:35 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by plokivos,Apr 23 2007, 08:28 AM
eh, I think it's the brake pressure but mostly it's the sequence of how fast you heel versus when you brake that makes it easier.
i think as long as my rhythm is on, it's relatively easy to double clutch toe and heel and rev it just right.
for some reason on s2000, the toe and heel is gentle tap above 3rd gear and you have to tap the accelerate hider/higher RPM on the 2nd for some reason. Gearing is a bit off.
my gf hates it when I drive the car like at the track in normal road. She thinks I shift too much and do too much with my legs. lol
i think as long as my rhythm is on, it's relatively easy to double clutch toe and heel and rev it just right.
for some reason on s2000, the toe and heel is gentle tap above 3rd gear and you have to tap the accelerate hider/higher RPM on the 2nd for some reason. Gearing is a bit off.
my gf hates it when I drive the car like at the track in normal road. She thinks I shift too much and do too much with my legs. lol
When I try to think about my foot and hand work my concentration goes to pot, and my rhythm and timing follow suit. It's like dancing. If you are thinking about the way you're moving around and forcing the moves, you end up looking stupid, but if you relax and just let it happen, you can dance.
I really don't worry about getting a "perfect" match when I double clutch or rev match. As long as I get close ... Well, close is good enough.
If I blow it badly I just slow the shift or clutch release, and if I blow it *totally* I just start over and try again.
05-05-2007, 07:48 PM
#49
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k, how hard do you need to force it. i'm a competitive bodybuilder and quite strong. i'm kind of scared to do that. i know a lot of you say you are and it ends up working. but someone just give me reassurance and the go ahead to really jerk on it. and i'll give it a try.
