Locked out of 5th gear--what could the problem be?
04-04-2007, 11:48 AM
#11
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nightcrawler7188 Posted on Apr 3 2007, 10:13 PM
That happened to me once after a track day where I only used 2-3-4 (on the track)
On my way back home 5th was very hard to get into for 2 or 3 times.
I had to "force" it in 5th, heared no noise nor felt any crunch doing so.
Just a lot of resistance.
Needless to say the transmission was still at operating temperature.
Never happened again, but never tracked the car again either.
In my car, shifting from 4th to 5th (especially at speed) is sometimes a little crunchy so I guess 5th gear synchro is not in its best condition.
IMO due to skip shifting by the previous owner.
Bottom line = do not skip shift.
Going from 3rd to 5th is a change of 0.55 in ratio.
Going from 4th to 5th is a change of 0.191 in ratio.
On an AP1.
(The S2000 should have been made with a true sequential gearbox - as an option at least IMO)
I was driving my 2002 the other day and noticed that out of nowhere I'm being locked out of 5th gear.... anyone ever encounter a problem like this?
On my way back home 5th was very hard to get into for 2 or 3 times.
I had to "force" it in 5th, heared no noise nor felt any crunch doing so.
Just a lot of resistance.
Needless to say the transmission was still at operating temperature.
Never happened again, but never tracked the car again either.
In my car, shifting from 4th to 5th (especially at speed) is sometimes a little crunchy so I guess 5th gear synchro is not in its best condition.
IMO due to skip shifting by the previous owner.
Bottom line = do not skip shift.
Going from 3rd to 5th is a change of 0.55 in ratio.
Going from 4th to 5th is a change of 0.191 in ratio.
On an AP1.
(The S2000 should have been made with a true sequential gearbox - as an option at least IMO)
04-04-2007, 11:47 PM
#12
Originally Posted by cdelena,Apr 4 2007, 09:38 AM
This is not an uncommon problem and the fix will probably be forcing it so forget some advice from those that have no experience with it..
Fifth and sixth share a collar that can get slightly mangled, usually from a failed high rpm shift to third that missed the gate and caught fifth gear.
What has worked for a number of owners is to be persistent using pressure to force engagement of fifth. This is while you are driving as you want a warm box and proper rpm to allow engagement. On my car it took many tries over a two day period and quite a bit of pressure.
Once you get fifth you will also be able to get sixth but engagement will be very rough. Shift repeatedly into fifth and sixth to smooth the rough spots on the collar.
I suggest you change the transmission oil after you get it working to drain and residue that is not picked up by the magnet.
Fifth and sixth share a collar that can get slightly mangled, usually from a failed high rpm shift to third that missed the gate and caught fifth gear.
What has worked for a number of owners is to be persistent using pressure to force engagement of fifth. This is while you are driving as you want a warm box and proper rpm to allow engagement. On my car it took many tries over a two day period and quite a bit of pressure.
Once you get fifth you will also be able to get sixth but engagement will be very rough. Shift repeatedly into fifth and sixth to smooth the rough spots on the collar.
I suggest you change the transmission oil after you get it working to drain and residue that is not picked up by the magnet.
He's made a number of attempts and his transmission gets stuck in the 5th gear gate when he attempts to force it into gear. From his post, it doesn't sound like he's being weak in his attempts either.
This sounds like a lot more than simple burrs on the 5th gear synchro -making it difficult to shift. If too much force is applied - further damage will very likely occur.
The OP may want the use of his 6th gear until he decides what his next course of action is. Using excessive force and damaging the transmission further only limits the OP's options down the road. Once again, I don't see any of you guys offering him a ride. Additionally, I don't see anything in my manual that states "if you can't get the shifter into 5th with moderate effort - keep trying to jam it in with increasing force". His transmission is damaged - obviously. However, this doesn't give you the right to advise the OP to trash it more.
OP: have a trained technician check it out.
04-05-2007, 01:08 AM
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Sounds like a shift fork. Bent the sh*t outta mine, long story, and is a pita to change but parts are very inexpensive. Usually have the same trouble with the opposing gear though ( read 6th in your case). My 02. cents.
04-05-2007, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by slipstream444,Apr 4 2007, 09:46 AM
NOT ADVISABLE - AT ALL!
Forcing the transmission into gear with a trashed synchro - even when nothing is running - can damage things to the point the OP won't be able to drive their car at all. Are you going to drive the OP around until his or her car is fixed? For the love of God! Don't make a suggestion unless you know what the hell you're talking about!
Forcing the transmission into gear with a trashed synchro - even when nothing is running - can damage things to the point the OP won't be able to drive their car at all. Are you going to drive the OP around until his or her car is fixed? For the love of God! Don't make a suggestion unless you know what the hell you're talking about!
OP - I'd listen to cdelena and SpitfireS's advice. The problem you're having is not that uncommon with these trannys. While there is probably some damage, you may get 5th back and never have the problem again for many many miles.
04-05-2007, 04:46 AM
#16
SpitfireS and CDelena are right the rest of the guys are just guessing.
I had it happen to me after a track day where I never used 5th. It took several days of driving before I could finally get it to even go into 5th (it was like it was blocked off). Once it began to go into 5th it would pop out. So I just drove it in 5th for about a half hour while holding it in gear and it has worked fine every since.
Now I never go to a track day but what I use 5th some. It might be only on the cool down lap but I put it in gear to lube the synchros.
I have seen numerous posts with the same problem. Yes, some have been caused by skip shifting but those guys have other symptoms as well. Some have burred the synchros on the 6th gear and since they are on the same shaft then they experience 5th gear probs too.
Once upon a time there was a bulletin on that. I don't understand synchros but it seems that lack of use causes 2 or more "plates or pieces" to stick together. 2 different dealers confirmed this and told me to just drive it a while and it will go away. I did and it did. In the 30,000 miles I've put on it since I've never had another issue of any kind.
I had it happen to me after a track day where I never used 5th. It took several days of driving before I could finally get it to even go into 5th (it was like it was blocked off). Once it began to go into 5th it would pop out. So I just drove it in 5th for about a half hour while holding it in gear and it has worked fine every since.
Now I never go to a track day but what I use 5th some. It might be only on the cool down lap but I put it in gear to lube the synchros.
I have seen numerous posts with the same problem. Yes, some have been caused by skip shifting but those guys have other symptoms as well. Some have burred the synchros on the 6th gear and since they are on the same shaft then they experience 5th gear probs too.
Once upon a time there was a bulletin on that. I don't understand synchros but it seems that lack of use causes 2 or more "plates or pieces" to stick together. 2 different dealers confirmed this and told me to just drive it a while and it will go away. I did and it did. In the 30,000 miles I've put on it since I've never had another issue of any kind.
04-05-2007, 08:14 AM
#18
Can't we all get along? There are multiple causes for the problem. I had a tranny with no fifth gear and it turned out to be someone bent the long tube from the shifter to the tranny body slightly while moving it. It was enough so 5th gear would not cooperate.
Never carry the tranny by that tube.
Never carry the tranny by that tube.
04-05-2007, 11:52 AM
#19
Originally Posted by Sideways,Apr 5 2007, 10:14 AM
Can't we all get along? There are multiple causes for the problem. I had a tranny with no fifth gear and it turned out to be someone bent the long tube from the shifter to the tranny body slightly while moving it. It was enough so 5th gear would not cooperate.
Never carry the tranny by that tube.
Never carry the tranny by that tube.
04-05-2007, 12:32 PM
#20
Registered User
on transmission, in my opinion, if the 5th is gone, and the syncros are done on the 5th which locks that gear out, all of the gears including 4th and 6th will be effected. That's just how transmission works.
I think I would take the advice of cdelena. if it's screwed up, you're looking at a replacement transmission (since from where I am the dealers don't rebuilt, they outsource you to somewhere), mine as well try that and if it doesn't work, crack it open and have someone fix it.
But at the same time, we don't know what this guy did to the car yet.
so I would listen and get more descriptions from the original poster to determine what's really going on.
I think I would take the advice of cdelena. if it's screwed up, you're looking at a replacement transmission (since from where I am the dealers don't rebuilt, they outsource you to somewhere), mine as well try that and if it doesn't work, crack it open and have someone fix it.
But at the same time, we don't know what this guy did to the car yet.
so I would listen and get more descriptions from the original poster to determine what's really going on.