K20 Head and F20c bottom
05-19-2007, 12:42 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by slipstream444,May 18 2007, 12:40 AM
Food for thought: if the i-vtec system is so much better than "standard" vtec used on the S2000, the K-series would be putting out more hp in stock form. The highest stock output for a N/A K-series motor WILL be around 220hp in the new CIVIC Type-R.
i-vtec is smoother in transition, but doesn't put out any more hp than the S2000's vtec system.
i-vtec is smoother in transition, but doesn't put out any more hp than the S2000's vtec system.
the reason why the k20 does not put out more power than the F20 Stock for Stock is really easy to see, Unless you are blind
Lower compression, Less RPMs, and it is significantly de-tuned from the factory....... do you think Honda is that stupid to produce a little compact car to out preform one of its Flagship roadsters? I don't think so.
05-19-2007, 12:53 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by slipstream444,May 18 2007, 12:40 AM
This reoccurring post must be a function of too many young S2000 owners spending too much time on K-series boards and listening to the ridiculous hp claims made on those sites. The only K-series powered car that has taken my S2000 was a turbo RSX(S). The kid went through two motors to boot. I've played with several highly modified N/A K-powered cars, and taken every one of them. The proof is in the pudding, not in the B.S.
you are not accounting weight (rsx and s2k pretty close), gearing (457's?), Aerodynamics, and most of all driver skill.....
your kill stories do not prove anything.
05-20-2007, 02:30 AM
#25
Originally Posted by tbonesteak,May 19 2007, 02:26 PM
haha...hondata reflash is 600. dcrh is under 400. intake is about 200. I mentioned that it was a tad bit over 1000. NOT UNDER. Why don't you go over to the clubrsx forums and do some much needed research? I have a ton of friends in the RSX community and i've not only seen these gains, i helped install, tune, and also ran with these guys multiple times. I've also seen these guys run with multiple stock s2ks or s2ks with intake and exhaust. They are NOT overestimated claims. I love my s2k far beyond ANY rsx. However, the facts need to be understood and the fact is that our motors were designed over 10 years ago while these incorporate much newer technology with far better responds to modifications.
Any good quality exhaust that will help liberate measurable hp will cost you at least $800. So the bill is up to $2000 - twice your estimate. Another thing missing in your equation, that according to Hondata's own plots is required to make "decent HP gains" (as you put it), is the addition of camshafts. How much do you think a set of ITR cams will cost? $500 a set for used (K20.org)? $1100+ new? And that's all parts - no labor.
How much is your "220 hp" costing you now? And I say that in quotes as I know the true numbers from seeing the results with my own eyes - remember the friend I noted above... 197whp - from the front wheels, where there's a lot less driveline loss than a RWD car. The average for an AP1 bone stock is 197 RWHP.
Clear winner - S2000.
Myth busted - who's next.
05-20-2007, 03:09 AM
#26
Originally Posted by TitusS2k,May 19 2007, 02:35 PM
Claims? With a k20a head and k24 block just slapped together, with a kpro i/h/e ITB's you will see 250-275 whp. Go to k20.org and research to see we arent joking. the k20 means business! But your trying to find every way to say that it doesnt. Thats why you done see people running EG's with F series motors. They all run the K20 motors. A cause they are stupid fast in them and also because a k20 loves boost! On 10-12 lbs they make 350-400 whp.... So u do the reasearch!
Hey genius - the reason you don't see anyone running AP1 or AP2 F-series motors in an EG is because it's too difficult to adapt a RWD drivetrain to a FWD car.
You really have no idea how a car works do you? You read the sport compact rags and pick up a phrase here, a word there - but you have no idea how things actually work.
Your "build up" example would cost somewhere in the $7000-$9000 range (using new parts except for the used motor and head - K20.org) - and for a meager 250hp??
That's frankly a bit weak. There are at least two individuals on this site who've built 2.4 liter stroked F20 motors that produce nearly 300 hp - and for about $5000 worth of work. Which motor is better again?
Ask how much HP/torque your average turbo charged S2000 produces (rhetorical). There are several turbo charged S2000s on this site with well over 450hp, and safely driven every day. You're not making a good point to support the K20/24/whatever.
And about your language: "stupid fast", "owned with a P" (what the hell does that mean anyway?) - what are you an "extra" rejected from the movie Idiocracy? The scary thing about that movie is it's more truth than fiction - and you're part of the proof.
Back to the facts (and the OP's original post) - none of the k20 fanclub on this post can produce any worthwhile information to support the use of a K20 head on an F20/22 block.
Fact: the cost and trouble associated with such a mod would be so overwhelming that it would obviously not be worth the attempt.
IF you actually got such a mod to work - the results would actually be quite dissapointing until you dumped several thousand dollars more attempting to bring the head flow back up to stock S2000 levels. Once again, you might get a few HP gain in the endeavor (after THOUSANDS of dollars) - but it's not worth the effort. CASE CLOSED.
Alot of good points were brought up...
