ahrmike

Indy, you bring up a good point. Since Im going to be running a M1 filter for the next 3K miles, and I have a PCX I can use as well (for the next 3K), ill try cut both open after they're used as well to see if anything is wrong with it, like clogged media, ripped filter, clogged bypass valve, etc.

Im still deciding whether to run M1 oil (cheaper) or RedLine (what im running now) for the tests. Ill probably go for the M1 and hope my chain tensioner doesnt get any worse.. 3K changes, and if I have the $ on me, then Ill do two UOA's.

Im going to pick up two M104 filters on my way to lunch today so hopefully Ill have one hacked up by tonight, and the 2nd in my car by next week (oil change time!)

SpitfireS

On the knizefamily.net website they have the M1-301 filter.
That is not the M1-104.

Thanks ikeyballz for doing what you did and I really hope you do the same to the Mobil 1-104 filter.
I say: let 2007 Zx-10 buy & send you the M1-104 filter
With 3k mile OCI's 2007 Zx-10 should have plenty of M1-104's in stock.

Oh well...


Also, I think most people use the PCX oil filter because that still IS a specific OEM (wear)item for the S2000.
Just like the Bridgestone ES02JZ S-02 is/was (for MY00-03 models).
Just like the NGK PFR7G-11S sparkplugs.
(type in the part# at the NGK website and you'll find a list of applications :all S2000)

Mobil1 seems to think the M1-104 suits more than one engine.

Until I see an open M1-104 filter (bought recently ) next to the PCX and its obvious the filter area is the same or better, construction of other parts is equal, ect, I would be able to think: there is an alternative.
The same goes IMO for the K&N.

All the OEM users claim is: its a specific part# for the S2000.
And there is no doubt about that.
So the "others" have to back-up their claims "their" product is better.
We (the OEM users) just sit back and wait.. and watch.

2007 Zx-10

no kidding, but it's still a comparison of *current* filters, that's the point, not products 5-10 years ago

does that mean you never switch tires or spark plugs when a superior product comes along? kind of a silly argument

and, again, if the filter/housing exceeds the performance requirements for all those engines, where is the problem? answer: there is none

at this point I'm tempted to get a particle count analysis done and blow this PCX argument right off the table, but my engine is still in break-in, so that's going to confuse the issue

SpitfireS

2007 Zx-10 Posted on Jan 6 2009, 09:13 PM
The point is to compare the M1-104 (the K&N) and the PCX.
Not just any "current" filter.
The PCX desing is 7-8 years old?

Tire wise I think I have to but I really don't want to as the S-02 is as close you can get to an R-compund tire without being one.
Besides, the width of the 16" rear S-02 is "special" for a 225.
Special enough to matter (to me)
Spark plug wise... IMO its going to be hard to outperform the OEM NGK.
Even today.

Just tempted?

What else is there to back up the claimes you've been making for a while now?
You're not the typical all-show-no-go-kinda-guy are you?

2007 Zx-10

like I said, my engine is in break-in, it should have at least 20k miles before a comparison test like this is performed

this was really all the proof I needed

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbth...1189112&fpart=3

anyone who claims a Filtech, made by the same manufacturer as Fram, is going to outperform Amsoil's best filter has a screw loose...like I said before, I'd take that bet any day

a little primer on the Amsoil Ea filter

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2192.pdf

ahrmike

Ok. So I just went out and bought two mobile1 filters. Im currently chopping one right now with a hacksaw... (gonna take a while but i got nothing to do at work today..boss is out..). SO.

My initial thoughts are:

the mobile1 build is not as good as the Filtech filter. From what I can see, the outside metal is thinner, the inner metal core looks to not be as drilled nicely, and the cover and gasket also seem slightly inferior to Filtech. I guess all of this doesnt matter since what we're interested in is FILTER material + area. The gasket that seats the oil filter is slightly thicker than the filtech gasket, and doesnt seem as pliable/sticky. Both seem to be much much better than a fram filter gasket.




updates after the chop! + pictures when I get my camera back from Gf...


---

Vanishing Point

It would seem the Honda filter is in fact made by Toyo Roki, here is their website that lists Filtech as one of their manufacturing plants here in the U.S. The only filters made by Fram were supplied in Canada and had cardboard endcaps, perhaps a Canadian member can provide their insight on this subject.

2007 ZX-10, I wish you would get off bashing Honda's filter, Champion makes all different grades of filters! Some are inferior, some like the K&N are better. Honda chose the one they did because it met or exceeded their recommendations for the specific model car based on their recommended oil change interval. With Honda's known engineering expertise/quality do you seriously think they would seriously put an inferior filter on a Honda to jeopardize their own warranty/reputation.

No one is going to object to you using any filter you wish, after all it's your car. But don't come on here bashing a product with unsubstantiated hearsay! By your reasoning I should avoid K&N filters because they are made by the same company that makes Lee and STP filters.


http://www.roki-jp.com/worldwide/index.html

ahrmike

Shit.

okay. So I got it open.

construction of the filtech (PCX) is much better than the M1. Theres no doubt that the PCX hardware is made from better material than the M1. The bypass valve on the M1 seems to be made a little more generically then the PCX. The filter element also has some 'glue' from the end caps dripping into the filter media. Ill take some pictures to show you guys what I mean when I get my camera back.

The M1 does APPEAR to have a smaller filter area...the filter element is shorter than the one on the Filtech. I cant give exact dimensions except for height right now, since I want to take pictures before I rip the element off of the caps.

The height of the M1 filter media is less than 5cm tall. Ill give exact measurements tonight...(hawaii standard time:P so tommorow morning for most of you guys.)

The bypass valve on the M1 is of metal construction but it does have a rubber seal at the end.

ON to the filter media observations:

The filter media seems a bit more packed together, compared to the Filtech so this may make up for the shortness of the filter element. It is not as nicely laid out as the Filtech, with different spacing between the pleats.

The filter media DOES appear to be a LOT LESS FUZZY then the Filtech filter, but Im not exactly sure why. I can still see some 'fuzz' all over the filter but it seems to be stuck better to the filter. I CAN however smell some sort of petroleum on it..so I cant say for sure that the Filter media is 'better' - since it might be preoiled, which would deff. result in a less 'fuzzy' filter medium. I think the best thing would be a rip test...so we can see how much 'fuzz' comes off.


Whats Interesting is that the orangish/brown seal appears almost exactly the same between the filtech and M1.

another Thing thats VERY noticeable is the metal mesh. on the M1, there are less holes, and there is a gap where there are no holes at all..possibly to strengthen the inner core.

Honestly, I think none of this is going to matter..it will probably only depend on the UOAs. I will look into how much it costs to ship oil filters from hawaii.. -_-.

Cliffsnotes so far:

M1$11 at checkers)
better filter media (maybe?)
shorter filter element
Stronger core?
Gasket on bypass valve

Filtech$8.55 at Handa-accessories.com)
Construction appears better
Longer filter element
Core flows better
Gasket to seal to engine looks stickier, better quality
outside can is thicker.
Appears to have larger filter surface area (no for sures until m1 is measured)

ahrmike

By the way, spitfire...the M104 picture you put up seems almost exactly like the same size as the M104 that I have. The filter media size may be the same...but I might as well re-calc it.

Vanishing Point

FYI ikeyballz, the oo4 filter for the S2000 is $8.55 at Handa, not $10.